1 00:00:09,950 --> 00:00:07,240 [Music] 2 00:00:11,690 --> 00:00:09,960 hello and welcome to the show I'm Martin 3 00:00:13,940 --> 00:00:11,700 will usher host and we had a little bit 4 00:00:17,359 --> 00:00:13,950 of feedback there but I think I caught 5 00:00:20,750 --> 00:00:17,369 it and got rid of it so welcome to the 6 00:00:22,849 --> 00:00:20,760 show it's gonna be a great show this 7 00:00:26,810 --> 00:00:22,859 evening and I hope you all out there are 8 00:00:28,910 --> 00:00:26,820 safe healthy and happy and this show is 9 00:00:32,330 --> 00:00:28,920 a place to go where you can escape from 10 00:00:34,819 --> 00:00:32,340 the news too we're gonna be discussing 11 00:00:38,660 --> 00:00:34,829 some discussing some really interesting 12 00:00:42,410 --> 00:00:38,670 topics and it's just gonna be a great 13 00:00:44,030 --> 00:00:42,420 evening so anyway I was just thinking 14 00:00:48,920 --> 00:00:44,040 the other day I checked my horoscope 15 00:00:52,040 --> 00:00:48,930 images now my horoscope says you'll be 16 00:00:55,100 --> 00:00:52,050 spending a lot of time at home Wow 17 00:00:57,319 --> 00:00:55,110 it's a it's similar to the one that I 18 00:01:00,470 --> 00:00:57,329 had last weekends they're really nailing 19 00:01:02,810 --> 00:01:00,480 it lately so I know that was my attempt 20 00:01:05,570 --> 00:01:02,820 at humor but about the show the first 21 00:01:08,480 --> 00:01:05,580 segment is with Travis Taylor his 22 00:01:10,960 --> 00:01:08,490 friends call him doc Taylor and there's 23 00:01:12,920 --> 00:01:10,970 a reason why he has multiple PhDs and 24 00:01:16,130 --> 00:01:12,930 optical science and engineering 25 00:01:18,340 --> 00:01:16,140 aerospace systems engineering and a 26 00:01:21,200 --> 00:01:18,350 master's degree in physics and astronomy 27 00:01:23,690 --> 00:01:21,210 Wow Wow is that that's all I can say I 28 00:01:28,700 --> 00:01:23,700 was just speaking with him he had 26 29 00:01:30,170 --> 00:01:28,710 years of school isn't that something for 30 00:01:32,120 --> 00:01:30,180 the last 25 years 31 00:01:34,399 --> 00:01:32,130 Taylor has worked on various high-tech 32 00:01:37,460 --> 00:01:34,409 programs for the Department of the 33 00:01:40,100 --> 00:01:37,470 defense and NASA he'll be discussing the 34 00:01:42,590 --> 00:01:40,110 new series which is the lead scientists 35 00:01:45,319 --> 00:01:42,600 and the name of that show was called 36 00:01:49,010 --> 00:01:45,329 the secret of skinwalker ranch it's 37 00:01:53,179 --> 00:01:49,020 premiering tonight on history Tuesday 38 00:01:56,539 --> 00:01:53,189 March 31st 10:00 9:00 central do not 39 00:01:59,060 --> 00:01:56,549 miss it the next two segments after that 40 00:02:01,130 --> 00:01:59,070 is with Leslie Cain and she's a 41 00:02:03,130 --> 00:02:01,140 respected journalist and one of the 42 00:02:06,319 --> 00:02:03,140 co-authors of the New York Times article 43 00:02:07,490 --> 00:02:06,329 December 16th 2017 we all know what 44 00:02:10,100 --> 00:02:07,500 happened there 45 00:02:13,730 --> 00:02:10,110 when the world's attention turned to 46 00:02:15,440 --> 00:02:13,740 UFOs so we're going to discuss 47 00:02:19,490 --> 00:02:15,450 find the scenes of how that came about 48 00:02:23,390 --> 00:02:19,500 and what has changed ever since that I 49 00:02:25,430 --> 00:02:23,400 have a friend who has a daughter that is 50 00:02:29,480 --> 00:02:25,440 being I think they call it remote 51 00:02:33,470 --> 00:02:29,490 schooling now she's at home learning 52 00:02:34,880 --> 00:02:33,480 remotely and my friend texted me and 53 00:02:37,270 --> 00:02:34,890 said you can't believe what they're 54 00:02:41,000 --> 00:02:37,280 talking about in third grade class 55 00:02:44,690 --> 00:02:41,010 they're talking about UFOs and so that 56 00:02:46,100 --> 00:02:44,700 that graphic is up on YouTube if you're 57 00:02:47,960 --> 00:02:46,110 watching it YouTube it's also going to 58 00:02:51,080 --> 00:02:47,970 be in the show notes and check it out 59 00:02:55,970 --> 00:02:51,090 and they even go so far is to list Louis 60 00:03:01,520 --> 00:02:55,980 Elizondo in that so check that out it's 61 00:03:03,200 --> 00:03:01,530 it's pretty pretty great so also while 62 00:03:06,830 --> 00:03:03,210 you're looking at the show notes over at 63 00:03:09,320 --> 00:03:06,840 podcast UFO comm there's a great blog by 64 00:03:12,860 --> 00:03:09,330 Michael luck over there called faded 65 00:03:15,650 --> 00:03:12,870 disks and there are links to some really 66 00:03:17,750 --> 00:03:15,660 awesome vintage UFO and counter 67 00:03:21,680 --> 00:03:17,760 interviews you know from all the way 68 00:03:25,040 --> 00:03:21,690 back you know 50 60 years old so check 69 00:03:27,260 --> 00:03:25,050 that out over there also some of you 70 00:03:30,440 --> 00:03:27,270 actually listen to my other podcast I do 71 00:03:32,540 --> 00:03:30,450 a podcast on antiques art auctions 72 00:03:34,760 --> 00:03:32,550 things like that that website is called 73 00:03:37,340 --> 00:03:34,770 the antique art it's antique auction 74 00:03:38,990 --> 00:03:37,350 forum calm and I'll be dropping the 75 00:03:42,620 --> 00:03:39,000 podcast over there in the next couple of 76 00:03:44,720 --> 00:03:42,630 days a number of you have said you 77 00:03:47,450 --> 00:03:44,730 wanted to be more distracted and wanted 78 00:03:49,250 --> 00:03:47,460 me to do more podcasts so I'm doing this 79 00:03:51,020 --> 00:03:49,260 one a week and hopefully I'll be able to 80 00:03:53,120 --> 00:03:51,030 do more of the antiques I know a lot of 81 00:03:55,340 --> 00:03:53,130 people are not interested in antiques 82 00:03:57,140 --> 00:03:55,350 and fine art and all that but I don't 83 00:03:59,690 --> 00:03:57,150 believe I'm going to be starting another 84 00:04:01,220 --> 00:03:59,700 show it's really hard to get guests once 85 00:04:02,270 --> 00:04:01,230 a week it would be really difficult to 86 00:04:04,850 --> 00:04:02,280 get them more than that but I do 87 00:04:07,100 --> 00:04:04,860 appreciate all the nice email that I've 88 00:04:10,550 --> 00:04:07,110 been getting some people really rely on 89 00:04:13,040 --> 00:04:10,560 the show especially right now so I'm 90 00:04:16,010 --> 00:04:13,050 really happy to do it and happy to be 91 00:04:18,410 --> 00:04:16,020 with you all tonight thank you all for 92 00:04:22,790 --> 00:04:18,420 supporting the show we're actually on 93 00:04:25,100 --> 00:04:22,800 patreon now and I believe that is just 94 00:04:27,580 --> 00:04:25,110 enough for me I'm going to bring on my 95 00:04:30,559 --> 00:04:27,590 guest Travis welcome to the show 96 00:04:32,990 --> 00:04:30,569 hey thanks for having me yes and your 97 00:04:39,619 --> 00:04:33,000 share somewhere really warm I can tell 98 00:04:41,180 --> 00:04:39,629 it just thinks you're down south from 99 00:04:43,969 --> 00:04:41,190 Huntsville or the Rockets they went to 100 00:04:45,860 --> 00:04:43,979 the moon were constructed oh wow Wow and 101 00:04:48,140 --> 00:04:45,870 what a background you have it's 102 00:04:50,779 --> 00:04:48,150 unbelievable all the time you spend in 103 00:04:58,129 --> 00:04:50,789 school did you have a social life during 104 00:05:04,219 --> 00:05:01,159 it's a mountain bike racing and ran some 105 00:05:07,520 --> 00:05:04,229 marathons and things like that all right 106 00:05:09,680 --> 00:05:07,530 yeah yeah so you know I want to talk 107 00:05:11,390 --> 00:05:09,690 tonight the new series is coming out and 108 00:05:12,649 --> 00:05:11,400 just you know for the first time the 109 00:05:16,610 --> 00:05:12,659 premiere is coming out in just a few 110 00:05:18,439 --> 00:05:16,620 hours tonight 10:00 9:00 central yeah on 111 00:05:21,589 --> 00:05:18,449 the hit on history and I wanted to talk 112 00:05:23,270 --> 00:05:21,599 for the the person that's just there's a 113 00:05:26,869 --> 00:05:23,280 lot of people just starting to listen 114 00:05:28,640 --> 00:05:26,879 about this UFO topic in general but so a 115 00:05:30,770 --> 00:05:28,650 lot of people are not aware at all of 116 00:05:33,080 --> 00:05:30,780 the skinwalker ranch never heard of it 117 00:05:36,770 --> 00:05:33,090 can you go into the details about that 118 00:05:39,649 --> 00:05:36,780 please yeah sure there's this ranch 119 00:05:42,950 --> 00:05:39,659 that's in the middle of a place called 120 00:05:47,480 --> 00:05:42,960 the Uintah Basin it's in Utah it's about 121 00:05:51,080 --> 00:05:47,490 a three-hour drive view east of Salt 122 00:05:53,059 --> 00:05:51,090 Lake City Airport and I know that 123 00:05:56,330 --> 00:05:53,069 because I did that many times over the 124 00:06:01,010 --> 00:05:56,340 process of filming the show and doing 125 00:06:03,080 --> 00:06:01,020 the research out there the ranch is dead 126 00:06:06,019 --> 00:06:03,090 center in this Basin and if you look at 127 00:06:08,240 --> 00:06:06,029 Google Earth at Utah you'll see this big 128 00:06:10,939 --> 00:06:08,250 giant gouge and you thought it looks to 129 00:06:13,040 --> 00:06:10,949 me like millions of years ago or 130 00:06:15,320 --> 00:06:13,050 whenever this occurred there was a 131 00:06:18,589 --> 00:06:15,330 meteor impact and it created the entire 132 00:06:20,390 --> 00:06:18,599 basin there in the mountains and you can 133 00:06:23,240 --> 00:06:20,400 even see where it came in from the east 134 00:06:25,490 --> 00:06:23,250 and hit the the earth and and threw salt 135 00:06:29,360 --> 00:06:25,500 and created the Salt Flats out to the 136 00:06:30,559 --> 00:06:29,370 west now for thousands of years and we 137 00:06:33,050 --> 00:06:30,569 know this because there are petroglyphs 138 00:06:35,240 --> 00:06:33,060 from the natives out there people have 139 00:06:37,820 --> 00:06:35,250 been claiming to see things in the sky 140 00:06:40,260 --> 00:06:37,830 claiming that there were you know other 141 00:06:43,560 --> 00:06:40,270 odd phenomenon 142 00:06:47,400 --> 00:06:43,570 happening out there and then about 100 143 00:06:51,270 --> 00:06:47,410 or so 200 years ago the Navajos and the 144 00:06:53,510 --> 00:06:51,280 youths got into a squabble uh it's 145 00:06:56,820 --> 00:06:53,520 probably I would call it a war actually 146 00:07:01,550 --> 00:06:56,830 and the u.s. cavalry was involved too 147 00:07:05,580 --> 00:07:01,560 because they caused the u2 to migrate 148 00:07:09,930 --> 00:07:05,590 and during this process the Navajos put 149 00:07:12,360 --> 00:07:09,940 a curse on the property so that it was 150 00:07:15,270 --> 00:07:12,370 protected by a shape-shifting creature 151 00:07:16,800 --> 00:07:15,280 called skinwalker and then the Utes 152 00:07:19,140 --> 00:07:16,810 think it's something different the youth 153 00:07:23,450 --> 00:07:19,150 actually think that it's their sky god 154 00:07:27,750 --> 00:07:23,460 that's protecting them and it sits there 155 00:07:30,420 --> 00:07:27,760 and it is the God that they say brings 156 00:07:33,000 --> 00:07:30,430 them from one trial and tribulation to 157 00:07:36,990 --> 00:07:33,010 their next level of evolution but at any 158 00:07:39,930 --> 00:07:37,000 rate in the 90s or so Bob Bigelow 159 00:07:42,150 --> 00:07:39,940 Bigelow Aerospace and that you may have 160 00:07:44,400 --> 00:07:42,160 heard of him from the recent releases 161 00:07:48,380 --> 00:07:44,410 about the a tip program where the 162 00:07:50,700 --> 00:07:48,390 Pentagon had a UFO investigation program 163 00:07:56,180 --> 00:07:50,710 actually is more like airspace threats 164 00:07:58,710 --> 00:07:56,190 but at any rate Bigelow on the ranch or 165 00:08:01,920 --> 00:07:58,720 about two decades and he had a team of 166 00:08:04,290 --> 00:08:01,930 scientists out there and they never 167 00:08:06,240 --> 00:08:04,300 released any information about whatever 168 00:08:10,230 --> 00:08:06,250 it was Bigelow seemed to find 169 00:08:12,390 --> 00:08:10,240 except for George Knapp and Qom Kelleher 170 00:08:14,610 --> 00:08:12,400 wrote this book and George Knapp been 171 00:08:17,370 --> 00:08:14,620 going around doing YouTube videos and 172 00:08:19,050 --> 00:08:17,380 conferences and stuff like that but what 173 00:08:24,200 --> 00:08:19,060 we're getting from them are stories of 174 00:08:28,010 --> 00:08:24,210 fantastic crazy things well in 2016 175 00:08:31,050 --> 00:08:28,020 Bigelow sold the ranch to a new owner of 176 00:08:33,180 --> 00:08:31,060 Brandon fugle who you know I think it we 177 00:08:34,260 --> 00:08:33,190 finally released who he was and they'll 178 00:08:38,240 --> 00:08:34,270 talk about him on the show 179 00:08:43,230 --> 00:08:38,250 he's another billionaire from Utah and 180 00:08:45,420 --> 00:08:43,240 he wanted to put a team together to dig 181 00:08:47,880 --> 00:08:45,430 into the research and let the world know 182 00:08:51,960 --> 00:08:47,890 the data when they found it instead of 183 00:08:52,450 --> 00:08:51,970 it being some obscure lost mechanism 184 00:08:53,890 --> 00:08:52,460 that what 185 00:08:56,860 --> 00:08:53,900 Bigelow's via we had no idea what 186 00:08:59,230 --> 00:08:56,870 Bigelow found all except for what he's 187 00:09:01,390 --> 00:08:59,240 claimed in various speeches and stuff no 188 00:09:02,740 --> 00:09:01,400 scientific data has been released well 189 00:09:07,360 --> 00:09:02,750 that's not what we're doing on the show 190 00:09:09,340 --> 00:09:07,370 we've got a camera crew 24/7 following 191 00:09:12,490 --> 00:09:09,350 us around while we're doing the research 192 00:09:14,890 --> 00:09:12,500 and and anything we see you're fine as 193 00:09:18,070 --> 00:09:14,900 long as the owner says we can release it 194 00:09:20,500 --> 00:09:18,080 which he always has then it's it's going 195 00:09:23,680 --> 00:09:20,510 to the public so that's the general 196 00:09:26,680 --> 00:09:23,690 premise of the show uh-huh now I know 197 00:09:29,050 --> 00:09:26,690 you can't talk you know that you can't 198 00:09:30,970 --> 00:09:29,060 really spoil a lot of the things that's 199 00:09:33,430 --> 00:09:30,980 going on there but can you talk about I 200 00:09:35,860 --> 00:09:33,440 was able to watch the screener a couple 201 00:09:39,760 --> 00:09:35,870 of shows and can you talk about some of 202 00:09:47,020 --> 00:09:39,770 the things that you find peculiar right 203 00:09:49,680 --> 00:09:47,030 off the bat there so right off the bat I 204 00:09:52,420 --> 00:09:49,690 wasn't there fifteen or twenty minutes 205 00:09:54,730 --> 00:09:52,430 thirty minutes at most when strange 206 00:09:56,220 --> 00:09:54,740 things started happening I didn't when I 207 00:09:59,230 --> 00:09:56,230 went out there I went out with the 208 00:10:01,630 --> 00:09:59,240 scientific skepticism that okay maybe 209 00:10:03,250 --> 00:10:01,640 there's a natural phenomenon that caused 210 00:10:06,790 --> 00:10:03,260 people to the hallucinate or see weird 211 00:10:08,050 --> 00:10:06,800 things or cause some some problem or 212 00:10:10,630 --> 00:10:08,060 maybe there's a classified government 213 00:10:12,970 --> 00:10:10,640 program going on somewhere nearby that's 214 00:10:15,340 --> 00:10:12,980 having a side effect that would explain 215 00:10:17,920 --> 00:10:15,350 the sightings of UFOs and strange things 216 00:10:20,080 --> 00:10:17,930 in the sky who knows but it wouldn't 217 00:10:22,420 --> 00:10:20,090 explain what the use of the Navajos 218 00:10:24,190 --> 00:10:22,430 claimed and what the the petroglyphs 219 00:10:26,560 --> 00:10:24,200 from all around claim has been there for 220 00:10:29,410 --> 00:10:26,570 thousands of years but I thought I would 221 00:10:31,870 --> 00:10:29,420 figure something out within 30 minutes 222 00:10:33,760 --> 00:10:31,880 of being there I was seeing phenomena 223 00:10:35,200 --> 00:10:33,770 that I could not explain I was 224 00:10:38,170 --> 00:10:35,210 scientifically measuring them with 225 00:10:40,300 --> 00:10:38,180 scientific instruments and could not 226 00:10:46,240 --> 00:10:40,310 point to a direction as to where these 227 00:10:48,280 --> 00:10:46,250 phenomena were coming from and now you 228 00:10:49,660 --> 00:10:48,290 know the story I read the book you were 229 00:10:53,350 --> 00:10:49,670 just talking about George maps and 230 00:10:55,540 --> 00:10:53,360 Kelleher that wrote the book and I read 231 00:10:57,040 --> 00:10:55,550 that book several years ago and I'm the 232 00:11:01,000 --> 00:10:57,050 thing that fascinated me was the 233 00:11:04,720 --> 00:11:01,010 gigantic like Wolff dodge type creature 234 00:11:06,220 --> 00:11:04,730 that was you know attacking a cow trying 235 00:11:07,810 --> 00:11:06,230 to pull his head through 236 00:11:09,910 --> 00:11:07,820 this was with the family that actually 237 00:11:12,040 --> 00:11:09,920 owned the ranch at the time trying to 238 00:11:14,590 --> 00:11:12,050 pull that calf's I think it was head 239 00:11:17,440 --> 00:11:14,600 through the fence and they shot it and I 240 00:11:19,480 --> 00:11:17,450 guess shot it several times and and they 241 00:11:20,920 --> 00:11:19,490 found no blood right is that is that 242 00:11:23,080 --> 00:11:20,930 right is that story right 243 00:11:25,450 --> 00:11:23,090 did you ever well that's the story the 244 00:11:28,840 --> 00:11:25,460 story's got a lot more to it than to 245 00:11:32,740 --> 00:11:28,850 honestly mean that the current team is 246 00:11:34,720 --> 00:11:32,750 out there we while they one of the guys 247 00:11:36,310 --> 00:11:34,730 is the ranch hand and the ranch manager 248 00:11:39,340 --> 00:11:36,320 and he's local and he actually knows 249 00:11:42,850 --> 00:11:39,350 this family he doesn't believe that 250 00:11:44,920 --> 00:11:42,860 they're tall tail type people but at the 251 00:11:47,080 --> 00:11:44,930 same time not the story a lot of it 252 00:11:50,200 --> 00:11:47,090 doesn't make sense so the story goes 253 00:11:51,790 --> 00:11:50,210 like this is giant wolf bigger than any 254 00:11:53,860 --> 00:11:51,800 wolf they've ever seen he just wanders 255 00:11:57,070 --> 00:11:53,870 up to them right into the first day they 256 00:11:58,420 --> 00:11:57,080 kind of move the cows in and and they 257 00:12:00,670 --> 00:11:58,430 walk up they actually the pain actually 258 00:12:02,980 --> 00:12:00,680 goes up and there's it's like friendly 259 00:12:05,050 --> 00:12:02,990 like a dog with them and then all the 260 00:12:06,730 --> 00:12:05,060 sudden a calf sticks his head through 261 00:12:08,500 --> 00:12:06,740 the fence and it sees the cabinet goes 262 00:12:11,050 --> 00:12:08,510 nuts like a sharp smell blood and water 263 00:12:13,450 --> 00:12:11,060 I guess jumps on the cabin start trying 264 00:12:16,330 --> 00:12:13,460 to pull it out of the fence 265 00:12:19,150 --> 00:12:16,340 so the son runs to the truck pulls out 266 00:12:21,820 --> 00:12:19,160 357 Magnum gives it to the father father 267 00:12:23,410 --> 00:12:21,830 shoots the thing several times doesn't 268 00:12:25,690 --> 00:12:23,420 really affected it still trying to kill 269 00:12:27,700 --> 00:12:25,700 the calf so then they run in the house 270 00:12:29,740 --> 00:12:27,710 all this time now they've shot much time 271 00:12:31,120 --> 00:12:29,750 they run in the house they get a thirty 272 00:12:32,890 --> 00:12:31,130 out six and they come back out and they 273 00:12:35,710 --> 00:12:32,900 shoot it with thirty out six and and 274 00:12:37,360 --> 00:12:35,720 then and but all they claim that there's 275 00:12:38,470 --> 00:12:37,370 a piece of flesh that's left over but 276 00:12:40,690 --> 00:12:38,480 there's no blood and then it just 277 00:12:43,030 --> 00:12:40,700 wanders off and then they follow its 278 00:12:45,100 --> 00:12:43,040 tracks trying to hunt it down and it 279 00:12:47,770 --> 00:12:45,110 goes to the middle of the field down by 280 00:12:49,390 --> 00:12:47,780 the river and and then they never see it 281 00:12:52,030 --> 00:12:49,400 and see the tracks the Spanish in thin 282 00:12:54,190 --> 00:12:52,040 air well so let me tell you my 283 00:12:56,680 --> 00:12:54,200 perspective and the show's perspective 284 00:12:58,810 --> 00:12:56,690 on this that's a story it's a campfire 285 00:13:00,490 --> 00:12:58,820 story it's a ghost story it's a story 286 00:13:04,180 --> 00:13:00,500 like my grandmother would tell me as a 287 00:13:07,540 --> 00:13:04,190 kid on Halloween it's not a story that 288 00:13:09,790 --> 00:13:07,550 we can do anything signed typically to 289 00:13:10,060 --> 00:13:09,800 find out if it was if it really happened 290 00:13:12,460 --> 00:13:10,070 or not 291 00:13:14,770 --> 00:13:12,470 I'm sure the schurmans believe it 292 00:13:17,320 --> 00:13:14,780 happened to them and I'm and I'm not 293 00:13:17,840 --> 00:13:17,330 gonna go into whether I think something 294 00:13:19,400 --> 00:13:17,850 was making 295 00:13:22,040 --> 00:13:19,410 lose mate or with real or what I had no 296 00:13:24,530 --> 00:13:22,050 idea and I'm not even gonna try and 297 00:13:28,490 --> 00:13:24,540 place any scientific judgment on the 298 00:13:30,730 --> 00:13:28,500 caliber of the story all I want to do is 299 00:13:33,280 --> 00:13:30,740 go out there and if there's a phenomena 300 00:13:36,019 --> 00:13:33,290 measure it with every scientific 301 00:13:38,960 --> 00:13:36,029 instrument that we can get our hands on 302 00:13:41,269 --> 00:13:38,970 and try and understand what's causing 303 00:13:42,920 --> 00:13:41,279 this phenomenon well now I will say 304 00:13:44,449 --> 00:13:42,930 there's all kind of crazy creepy stories 305 00:13:46,970 --> 00:13:44,459 out there that if you let your 306 00:13:50,509 --> 00:13:46,980 imagination wander like the story about 307 00:13:51,590 --> 00:13:50,519 this dire wolf it will creep you out but 308 00:13:53,180 --> 00:13:51,600 that's not the point of being there 309 00:13:55,879 --> 00:13:53,190 we're not there to be creeped out we're 310 00:13:59,269 --> 00:13:55,889 out there to find out what the answer 311 00:14:02,389 --> 00:13:59,279 this strange mystery is right I was up I 312 00:14:05,150 --> 00:14:02,399 was on the call with you the press call 313 00:14:06,860 --> 00:14:05,160 with you last Friday and I remember 314 00:14:09,079 --> 00:14:06,870 someone talked to you asked you a 315 00:14:11,240 --> 00:14:09,089 question about what type of paranormal 316 00:14:12,920 --> 00:14:11,250 things did you see out there and and can 317 00:14:14,449 --> 00:14:12,930 you describe you you're saying there's 318 00:14:18,800 --> 00:14:14,459 nothing you don't believe the word is 319 00:14:21,319 --> 00:14:18,810 paranormal is a fitting word yes 320 00:14:26,210 --> 00:14:21,329 so paranormal means something that 321 00:14:29,210 --> 00:14:26,220 that's not normal to this universe well 322 00:14:31,340 --> 00:14:29,220 if we see things happening within the 323 00:14:32,720 --> 00:14:31,350 universe then it must be normal to it it 324 00:14:36,650 --> 00:14:32,730 just may be something that we don't 325 00:14:39,710 --> 00:14:36,660 understand and we we create this box of 326 00:14:41,889 --> 00:14:39,720 what we believe normal is which is 327 00:14:44,809 --> 00:14:41,899 actually it's it's it's a small 328 00:14:47,660 --> 00:14:44,819 narrow-minded actually egocentric thing 329 00:14:49,460 --> 00:14:47,670 to do that we think just because we 330 00:14:51,230 --> 00:14:49,470 created the box that we said is normal 331 00:14:51,920 --> 00:14:51,240 and all the normal stuff has to fit in 332 00:14:56,530 --> 00:14:51,930 that box 333 00:14:59,389 --> 00:14:56,540 well Humanity is only been around for 334 00:15:00,620 --> 00:14:59,399 you know so many tens to hundreds of 335 00:15:02,300 --> 00:15:00,630 thousands of years where they're 336 00:15:04,160 --> 00:15:02,310 actually you having critical thoughts as 337 00:15:09,920 --> 00:15:04,170 far as we know anyway 338 00:15:13,550 --> 00:15:09,930 and then so how do we know in a universe 339 00:15:16,670 --> 00:15:13,560 that's 13.7 billion years oh what normal 340 00:15:19,210 --> 00:15:16,680 really is hmm be a phenomena that's just 341 00:15:23,929 --> 00:15:19,220 physics that we've yet to understand and 342 00:15:27,199 --> 00:15:23,939 now yeah it does come from another 343 00:15:29,360 --> 00:15:27,209 universe well I don't know if you'd call 344 00:15:30,889 --> 00:15:29,370 that paranormal or not it's the same 345 00:15:35,480 --> 00:15:30,899 thing that 346 00:15:38,329 --> 00:15:35,490 my good friend the rabbi ariel bar dock 347 00:15:42,069 --> 00:15:38,339 he always says you know angels and 348 00:15:46,850 --> 00:15:42,079 demons and gods by definition are 349 00:15:52,790 --> 00:15:46,860 extraterrestrial so that's some way to 350 00:15:55,489 --> 00:15:52,800 think about that right right um now Eric 351 00:15:59,569 --> 00:15:55,499 Davis when he was there he claims he saw 352 00:16:01,549 --> 00:15:59,579 this portal that opened and this 353 00:16:04,189 --> 00:16:01,559 creature came out of it that was in the 354 00:16:06,799 --> 00:16:04,199 book but so you're saying there's really 355 00:16:09,679 --> 00:16:06,809 nothing doc camp truly documented about 356 00:16:11,739 --> 00:16:09,689 a situation like that is that one well 357 00:16:15,290 --> 00:16:11,749 well here's the thing if there is a 358 00:16:19,069 --> 00:16:15,300 scientific evidentiary document or any 359 00:16:19,489 --> 00:16:19,079 of the data for that event nobody in 360 00:16:21,650 --> 00:16:19,499 them 361 00:16:23,780 --> 00:16:21,660 has ever seen it now I've spoken with 362 00:16:25,369 --> 00:16:23,790 Eric Davis about it and there he said it 363 00:16:26,840 --> 00:16:25,379 happened and they were usually told me 364 00:16:30,230 --> 00:16:26,850 what instruments they were using and so 365 00:16:35,299 --> 00:16:30,240 on but again and Eric agrees with me on 366 00:16:37,519 --> 00:16:35,309 this is that without the data that you 367 00:16:40,730 --> 00:16:37,529 can release to the scientific community 368 00:16:42,650 --> 00:16:40,740 for them uh scrutinize it then you know 369 00:16:45,230 --> 00:16:42,660 it doesn't really mean anything it may 370 00:16:47,840 --> 00:16:45,240 as well not happen if you can't show 371 00:16:50,569 --> 00:16:47,850 that it did and that's why we're putting 372 00:16:53,389 --> 00:16:50,579 every bit of the data right there in 373 00:16:54,769 --> 00:16:53,399 front of everybody that when we get it 374 00:16:57,590 --> 00:16:54,779 we're showing it we're saying hey look 375 00:17:00,980 --> 00:16:57,600 this is what we're seeing if it's crazy 376 00:17:03,619 --> 00:17:00,990 then that that's that's what we got now 377 00:17:06,649 --> 00:17:03,629 I know I heard and I don't know if this 378 00:17:09,699 --> 00:17:06,659 can be confirmed but for many years you 379 00:17:13,610 --> 00:17:09,709 know after the research was done there 380 00:17:16,220 --> 00:17:13,620 that things just stopped happening but 381 00:17:19,159 --> 00:17:16,230 they're happening again that's that's as 382 00:17:21,559 --> 00:17:19,169 soon as Brandon bought it right or 383 00:17:23,449 --> 00:17:21,569 sooner 384 00:17:27,049 --> 00:17:23,459 question we don't know the answer to 385 00:17:32,690 --> 00:17:27,059 that so here's what we do know Bigelow 386 00:17:34,399 --> 00:17:32,700 says that but the last six to seven 387 00:17:36,380 --> 00:17:34,409 years that he owned it at least 388 00:17:39,560 --> 00:17:36,390 according to witnesses that we've spoken 389 00:17:41,960 --> 00:17:39,570 to who work for him the only people on 390 00:17:44,090 --> 00:17:41,970 the ranch were security daughters hmm 391 00:17:44,570 --> 00:17:44,100 and the security guards tell us that 392 00:17:46,100 --> 00:17:44,580 stuff 393 00:17:47,840 --> 00:17:46,110 it happened and they would see their 394 00:17:53,450 --> 00:17:47,850 porch the big a little through fax all 395 00:17:56,450 --> 00:17:53,460 the time but Bigelow had moved on I 396 00:17:59,149 --> 00:17:56,460 think at that point he was either maybe 397 00:18:01,220 --> 00:17:59,159 working on the ATM program and or he was 398 00:18:02,870 --> 00:18:01,230 building his inflatable habitat though 399 00:18:06,950 --> 00:18:02,880 he was trying to get connected to the 400 00:18:08,960 --> 00:18:06,960 space station right one of the things 401 00:18:10,789 --> 00:18:08,970 like you know I had to turn me Korbel on 402 00:18:13,130 --> 00:18:10,799 just shocked about skinwalker I 403 00:18:14,870 --> 00:18:13,140 apologize to listeners we tried to fix 404 00:18:17,330 --> 00:18:14,880 this feedback coming through it's just 405 00:18:22,159 --> 00:18:17,340 there's no way to change it so we had to 406 00:18:23,509 --> 00:18:22,169 move on so Jeremy wanted to make a point 407 00:18:25,820 --> 00:18:23,519 and I'm sure you want to make this point 408 00:18:27,680 --> 00:18:25,830 now because it's want to be on there do 409 00:18:31,940 --> 00:18:27,690 you want to just you know elaborate a 410 00:18:34,190 --> 00:18:31,950 little more on that I really appreciate 411 00:18:37,930 --> 00:18:34,200 you bringing this up so let me tell you 412 00:18:40,850 --> 00:18:37,940 we've had people have serious injuries 413 00:18:44,299 --> 00:18:40,860 including myself at radiation sickness 414 00:18:46,190 --> 00:18:44,309 really and those experiments might could 415 00:18:48,080 --> 00:18:46,200 even be dangerous if you were to get in 416 00:18:52,009 --> 00:18:48,090 them and we don't know you're there but 417 00:18:54,110 --> 00:18:52,019 in worst case or minimal worst cases you 418 00:18:57,799 --> 00:18:54,120 taint the experiment and we think we 419 00:19:00,080 --> 00:18:57,809 found something we did another incident 420 00:19:02,629 --> 00:19:00,090 might be that you get out there and the 421 00:19:04,490 --> 00:19:02,639 place is naturally dangerous with snakes 422 00:19:06,259 --> 00:19:04,500 and mountain lions and cave-ins and 423 00:19:08,870 --> 00:19:06,269 caves and holes in the ground and and 424 00:19:11,240 --> 00:19:08,880 wolves and and and so on 425 00:19:13,970 --> 00:19:11,250 you could get hurt naturally and there's 426 00:19:15,799 --> 00:19:13,980 nobody out there that can find you and 427 00:19:17,840 --> 00:19:15,809 help you except for us and it's a 500 428 00:19:19,129 --> 00:19:17,850 acre ranch and unless we just haven't 429 00:19:21,470 --> 00:19:19,139 see you or hear you on one of our 430 00:19:25,100 --> 00:19:21,480 sensors you could be stuck out there for 431 00:19:28,129 --> 00:19:25,110 a long time but then whatever this 432 00:19:31,220 --> 00:19:28,139 phenomena is it's a real thing and it's 433 00:19:32,600 --> 00:19:31,230 it can be potentially harmful because we 434 00:19:34,850 --> 00:19:32,610 don't know what it is and why it's doing 435 00:19:37,519 --> 00:19:34,860 what it's do it you can get out there 436 00:19:41,120 --> 00:19:37,529 and get an exposure whether it's a toxic 437 00:19:43,639 --> 00:19:41,130 or an intoxicating type of exposure that 438 00:19:46,490 --> 00:19:43,649 can cause you serious harm or maybe even 439 00:19:48,830 --> 00:19:46,500 death please do not go out there as a 440 00:19:51,080 --> 00:19:48,840 thrill-seeker trying to get on the ranch 441 00:19:53,539 --> 00:19:51,090 or to sneak up feed and what's going on 442 00:19:55,879 --> 00:19:53,549 look we got cameras that are wide open 443 00:19:56,900 --> 00:19:55,889 gonna be there in fact the last 12 hours 444 00:19:58,700 --> 00:19:56,910 there's been live 445 00:20:01,750 --> 00:19:58,710 on the internet for you to look at and 446 00:20:06,200 --> 00:20:01,760 see and all this is going on the show 447 00:20:09,230 --> 00:20:06,210 you know so trust us that we're not 448 00:20:12,190 --> 00:20:09,240 doing some crazy conspiracy cover-up 449 00:20:16,580 --> 00:20:12,200 thing we're showing you what we find now 450 00:20:19,610 --> 00:20:16,590 the property backs up to Native American 451 00:20:22,100 --> 00:20:19,620 lands and I'm wondering if other people 452 00:20:26,240 --> 00:20:22,110 are suffering from radiation sickness 453 00:20:30,080 --> 00:20:26,250 have you ever heard of that well so 454 00:20:32,090 --> 00:20:30,090 here's the thing yeah we really do not 455 00:20:34,640 --> 00:20:32,100 believe that whatever this phenomena is 456 00:20:37,190 --> 00:20:34,650 cares about the little barbed wire 457 00:20:40,220 --> 00:20:37,200 fences that that mankind has put up to 458 00:20:41,870 --> 00:20:40,230 heat its cows in and we certainly think 459 00:20:43,790 --> 00:20:41,880 that whatever is happening on the 500 460 00:20:46,670 --> 00:20:43,800 acres in the middle of this Basin is 461 00:20:48,350 --> 00:20:46,680 happening all around and we have spoken 462 00:20:49,850 --> 00:20:48,360 with witnesses who have shown similar 463 00:20:52,100 --> 00:20:49,860 symptoms and didn't know what it was 464 00:20:55,430 --> 00:20:52,110 that was wrong with them and we believe 465 00:20:57,680 --> 00:20:55,440 it could be the same phenomenon we have 466 00:20:59,450 --> 00:20:57,690 got definitive scientific proof of that 467 00:21:01,610 --> 00:20:59,460 yet and when we do certainly we'll let 468 00:21:04,700 --> 00:21:01,620 everybody know because we actually spoke 469 00:21:09,320 --> 00:21:04,710 with some people from a Utah governor's 470 00:21:11,270 --> 00:21:09,330 office because we want everybody to know 471 00:21:13,340 --> 00:21:11,280 if there's something going on out there 472 00:21:14,990 --> 00:21:13,350 that turns out to be dangerous it's 473 00:21:17,600 --> 00:21:15,000 imperative that we find out what it is 474 00:21:18,950 --> 00:21:17,610 and let everybody know okay I know we 475 00:21:21,290 --> 00:21:18,960 only have a couple of minutes here so I 476 00:21:24,560 --> 00:21:21,300 have a couple of quick questions to fire 477 00:21:29,420 --> 00:21:24,570 at you first of all did you have any UFO 478 00:21:31,130 --> 00:21:29,430 sightings while you were there we saw a 479 00:21:32,990 --> 00:21:31,140 bunch of things and it's all on camera 480 00:21:34,280 --> 00:21:33,000 and scientific instruments and I just 481 00:21:36,020 --> 00:21:34,290 don't want to spoil it for you but I 482 00:21:38,420 --> 00:21:36,030 will tell you this you will be 483 00:21:41,960 --> 00:21:38,430 absolutely amazed and excited and 484 00:21:45,200 --> 00:21:41,970 thrilled from what we found and saw and 485 00:21:47,300 --> 00:21:45,210 we'll be showing you on on the show all 486 00:21:49,280 --> 00:21:47,310 right that's that's good I'm definitely 487 00:21:51,530 --> 00:21:49,290 going to be tuning in and scientific 488 00:21:53,990 --> 00:21:51,540 instruments we have a scientist that 489 00:21:57,340 --> 00:21:54,000 just actually texted me wanted student 490 00:22:01,280 --> 00:21:57,350 wanted to know what you were using there 491 00:22:03,170 --> 00:22:01,290 we've used everything from multiple RF 492 00:22:07,180 --> 00:22:03,180 sensors and microwave sensors and 493 00:22:09,530 --> 00:22:07,190 spectrum analyzers across the radios and 494 00:22:10,250 --> 00:22:09,540 electromagnetic spectrum we've used 495 00:22:13,430 --> 00:22:10,260 infrared 496 00:22:16,730 --> 00:22:13,440 visible sensors we use gravitational 497 00:22:19,390 --> 00:22:16,740 sensors and gamma ray and x-ray 498 00:22:22,100 --> 00:22:19,400 detectors and particle counters and 499 00:22:26,060 --> 00:22:22,110 we've also looked for toxic gases and 500 00:22:29,570 --> 00:22:26,070 chemicals and biological of volatile 501 00:22:32,270 --> 00:22:29,580 organic compounds and so on and we have 502 00:22:35,690 --> 00:22:32,280 instruments of all sorts that we used on 503 00:22:37,880 --> 00:22:35,700 the ground in the ground in the sky in 504 00:22:41,000 --> 00:22:37,890 the water everywhere everything we can 505 00:22:43,970 --> 00:22:41,010 think of and you know I have to say we 506 00:22:45,550 --> 00:22:43,980 did what was a thorough research but 507 00:22:49,280 --> 00:22:45,560 we're just getting started 508 00:22:52,130 --> 00:22:49,290 great well thanks so much and check out 509 00:22:53,570 --> 00:22:52,140 history tonight at 10:00 9:00 central 510 00:22:55,280 --> 00:22:53,580 thanks so much 511 00:22:57,680 --> 00:22:55,290 Travis has been a real pleasure I really 512 00:23:00,470 --> 00:22:57,690 appreciate it hey thank you very much 513 00:23:02,360 --> 00:23:00,480 all right all right so everyone hang on 514 00:23:06,250 --> 00:23:02,370 we'll be right back 515 00:23:09,260 --> 00:23:06,260 we are going to go into a break and 516 00:23:10,180 --> 00:23:09,270 we'll be right back right after these 517 00:23:14,060 --> 00:23:10,190 messages 518 00:23:16,100 --> 00:23:14,070 all righty welcome back and now I'm back 519 00:23:19,070 --> 00:23:16,110 with our guests for the next two 520 00:23:22,010 --> 00:23:19,080 segments leslie kane welcome to the show 521 00:23:24,800 --> 00:23:22,020 Leslie thanks Martin hello to everybody 522 00:23:28,610 --> 00:23:24,810 who's listening Leslie I always love 523 00:23:31,670 --> 00:23:28,620 talking to you just really enjoy you 524 00:23:35,150 --> 00:23:31,680 know I met you in North Carolina many 525 00:23:37,690 --> 00:23:35,160 years ago now it is but always wonderful 526 00:23:40,160 --> 00:23:37,700 to talk to you I love what you do and 527 00:23:43,340 --> 00:23:40,170 thank you and I'm really glad that you 528 00:23:46,040 --> 00:23:43,350 could come back thanks Martin I've had a 529 00:23:48,320 --> 00:23:46,050 lot of people that have been requesting 530 00:23:50,840 --> 00:23:48,330 that you come on the show for quite a 531 00:23:52,910 --> 00:23:50,850 while now of course right after you 532 00:23:57,050 --> 00:23:52,920 wrote the article 533 00:23:59,360 --> 00:23:57,060 back in December 16 2017 the Pentagon 534 00:24:03,070 --> 00:23:59,370 what was the title of the Aurora's how 535 00:24:05,570 --> 00:24:03,080 did that go the headline you mean yes I 536 00:24:07,340 --> 00:24:05,580 gosh you know what well that the the one 537 00:24:10,370 --> 00:24:07,350 in the print edition actually was the 538 00:24:14,210 --> 00:24:10,380 one I like better that headline was real 539 00:24:15,830 --> 00:24:14,220 UFOs question mark Pentagon unit tried 540 00:24:17,390 --> 00:24:15,840 to no that's actually what I have 541 00:24:19,460 --> 00:24:17,400 sitting here sitting here right now in 542 00:24:21,770 --> 00:24:19,470 front of me the print edition so 543 00:24:24,020 --> 00:24:21,780 Pentagon unit tried to know so but the 544 00:24:26,120 --> 00:24:24,030 one online it was something like 545 00:24:28,610 --> 00:24:26,130 auras and yeah I guess you know what I 546 00:24:30,530 --> 00:24:28,620 don't even remember but I I think they 547 00:24:32,600 --> 00:24:30,540 took it they took some of the language 548 00:24:35,030 --> 00:24:32,610 that we use to describe one of the 549 00:24:37,190 --> 00:24:35,040 videos I'm gonna have to dig that out 550 00:24:39,380 --> 00:24:37,200 while we're talking here yeah I mean if 551 00:24:40,730 --> 00:24:39,390 anybody if it's because you want people 552 00:24:43,010 --> 00:24:40,740 to be able to look it up right now if 553 00:24:45,680 --> 00:24:43,020 they just put in New York Times UFOs 554 00:24:47,630 --> 00:24:45,690 it'll come right up that's right it's 555 00:24:51,260 --> 00:24:47,640 something like glowing auras and ghostly 556 00:24:54,740 --> 00:24:51,270 something or others yeah it is it's 557 00:24:57,260 --> 00:24:54,750 glowing ores and black money Colin the 558 00:25:04,640 --> 00:24:57,270 Pentagon's mysterious and then it kind 559 00:25:07,520 --> 00:25:04,650 of program finally we we journalists 560 00:25:10,610 --> 00:25:07,530 have no say in the headlines yes so 561 00:25:11,840 --> 00:25:10,620 people know that and of course the big 562 00:25:13,790 --> 00:25:11,850 you know the big one of the big 563 00:25:16,400 --> 00:25:13,800 components of that story was the videos 564 00:25:18,050 --> 00:25:16,410 and even though I love the print edition 565 00:25:19,760 --> 00:25:18,060 I like the headline better of course the 566 00:25:22,880 --> 00:25:19,770 only way to see the videos is to go on 567 00:25:24,920 --> 00:25:22,890 the computer well I will tell you that 568 00:25:27,530 --> 00:25:24,930 some people that have told me that I'm 569 00:25:30,020 --> 00:25:27,540 silly for doing this show and UFOs that 570 00:25:32,060 --> 00:25:30,030 no me in the antiques world and all that 571 00:25:33,590 --> 00:25:32,070 fine arts and all that but you know 572 00:25:35,900 --> 00:25:33,600 they're still my friends but they're 573 00:25:40,160 --> 00:25:35,910 just kind of like get a chuckle out of 574 00:25:43,250 --> 00:25:40,170 it they have said to me wow there's 575 00:25:46,940 --> 00:25:43,260 really something huh because of that 576 00:25:50,030 --> 00:25:46,950 that's you know it makes me yeah in my 577 00:25:52,340 --> 00:25:50,040 professional field I have been much more 578 00:25:54,950 --> 00:25:52,350 relaxed about bringing that topic up 579 00:25:57,860 --> 00:25:54,960 ever since that came out so a lot has 580 00:25:59,690 --> 00:25:57,870 changed yeah I think that's true for so 581 00:26:02,060 --> 00:25:59,700 many people and it's something that 582 00:26:04,070 --> 00:26:02,070 reached people that aren't normally even 583 00:26:06,350 --> 00:26:04,080 interested in the topic you know so you 584 00:26:08,390 --> 00:26:06,360 can just run into anyone I mean I run 585 00:26:11,210 --> 00:26:08,400 into people in New York who just are 586 00:26:13,070 --> 00:26:11,220 working someplace I'm going or the saw 587 00:26:15,170 --> 00:26:13,080 topic comes up and they know about this 588 00:26:17,450 --> 00:26:15,180 article you know or I went and did did 589 00:26:19,790 --> 00:26:17,460 interviews for my my newest book that 590 00:26:21,380 --> 00:26:19,800 had nothing to do with UFOs and people 591 00:26:22,580 --> 00:26:21,390 in various studios knew about the 592 00:26:24,440 --> 00:26:22,590 article they just didn't know I had 593 00:26:26,720 --> 00:26:24,450 anything to do with it so it's just sort 594 00:26:29,630 --> 00:26:26,730 of out there in the culture in a way 595 00:26:32,630 --> 00:26:29,640 that very few things actually you know 596 00:26:35,930 --> 00:26:32,640 become like that so I think it has it's 597 00:26:37,880 --> 00:26:35,940 made it way easier as you say for people 598 00:26:39,260 --> 00:26:37,890 to feel comfortable talking about it 599 00:26:41,510 --> 00:26:39,270 and I'm happy that it had that effect 600 00:26:42,950 --> 00:26:41,520 you know I just talked about this on my 601 00:26:45,260 --> 00:26:42,960 last show but I still I'll still bring 602 00:26:47,180 --> 00:26:45,270 it up because I never told you this but 603 00:26:50,420 --> 00:26:47,190 right after that article came out I was 604 00:26:52,550 --> 00:26:50,430 flying on American Airlines and there 605 00:26:53,600 --> 00:26:52,560 was a sitting next to a real nice 606 00:26:56,630 --> 00:26:53,610 gentleman we had a great conversation 607 00:26:58,340 --> 00:26:56,640 ended up he was a pilot for American 608 00:27:01,090 --> 00:26:58,350 Airlines and he was dead heading to 609 00:27:04,310 --> 00:27:01,100 another you know location to fly out of 610 00:27:06,290 --> 00:27:04,320 not in uniform or anything and so I 611 00:27:09,830 --> 00:27:06,300 asked him if he saw of a New York's 612 00:27:12,530 --> 00:27:09,840 Times a article and he said no I missed 613 00:27:15,920 --> 00:27:12,540 that but you know what he says they're 614 00:27:18,590 --> 00:27:15,930 real I can tell you that he told me a 615 00:27:21,260 --> 00:27:18,600 story about being in a f-18 Hornet or 616 00:27:25,310 --> 00:27:21,270 whatever it was in a green orb following 617 00:27:27,140 --> 00:27:25,320 him for for a long time and and he said 618 00:27:29,240 --> 00:27:27,150 that he was afraid to talk about it but 619 00:27:31,700 --> 00:27:29,250 I think you know things the things that 620 00:27:34,660 --> 00:27:31,710 have changed as people aren't so afraid 621 00:27:37,460 --> 00:27:34,670 to talk about it as it used to be I 622 00:27:39,050 --> 00:27:37,470 think that's true but I still think we 623 00:27:40,820 --> 00:27:39,060 got a long way to go and there still are 624 00:27:43,970 --> 00:27:40,830 people who are afraid to talk about it 625 00:27:47,360 --> 00:27:43,980 for various reasons but I still think it 626 00:27:49,130 --> 00:27:47,370 made a big step forward that story and 627 00:27:52,880 --> 00:27:49,140 then same with the one that came in out 628 00:27:56,120 --> 00:27:52,890 in May of 2019 about the USS Roosevelt 629 00:27:58,820 --> 00:27:56,130 that also helped this situation a lot so 630 00:28:01,630 --> 00:27:58,830 it's just a very slow process it's also 631 00:28:04,070 --> 00:28:01,640 frustrating you know cuz it's so slow I 632 00:28:06,620 --> 00:28:04,080 think that that's the same for everyone 633 00:28:08,180 --> 00:28:06,630 especially in that people are paying you 634 00:28:10,610 --> 00:28:08,190 know in the UFO field so to speak or 635 00:28:12,440 --> 00:28:10,620 whatever you want to call it it you know 636 00:28:14,630 --> 00:28:12,450 people wanted more come on more you know 637 00:28:18,080 --> 00:28:14,640 let's keep going with this we're on a 638 00:28:19,970 --> 00:28:18,090 roll type of thing but you can't just 639 00:28:21,530 --> 00:28:19,980 put you can't put false information 640 00:28:23,980 --> 00:28:21,540 you've got to put it out when it when it 641 00:28:26,660 --> 00:28:23,990 when you can and when it comes along 642 00:28:27,890 --> 00:28:26,670 that's right I mean especially ready for 643 00:28:30,080 --> 00:28:27,900 something like the New York Times that 644 00:28:32,840 --> 00:28:30,090 has such a high bar you know for 645 00:28:34,340 --> 00:28:32,850 anything they publish and everything has 646 00:28:37,580 --> 00:28:34,350 to be you know you have to have at least 647 00:28:40,490 --> 00:28:37,590 two people on the record and you know 648 00:28:42,110 --> 00:28:40,500 there's all kinds of everything has to 649 00:28:45,470 --> 00:28:42,120 be documented everything has to be 650 00:28:46,460 --> 00:28:45,480 checked out and it's got to be a certain 651 00:28:49,760 --> 00:28:46,470 kind of story 652 00:28:51,740 --> 00:28:49,770 to land in the New York Times and that's 653 00:28:53,840 --> 00:28:51,750 the thing so people wonder well how 654 00:28:56,630 --> 00:28:53,850 we journalists at the times haven't done 655 00:28:58,820 --> 00:28:56,640 more well we're constantly looking for 656 00:29:00,440 --> 00:28:58,830 the kinds of story that we could bring 657 00:29:04,220 --> 00:29:00,450 to the times we'd like nothing more than 658 00:29:06,560 --> 00:29:04,230 to do to do more but there's only a 659 00:29:09,020 --> 00:29:06,570 certain level of story that will get 660 00:29:11,660 --> 00:29:09,030 there and it usually has to be I would 661 00:29:13,670 --> 00:29:11,670 say probably for us pretty much always 662 00:29:17,150 --> 00:29:13,680 has to either be tied to the military or 663 00:29:18,560 --> 00:29:17,160 the government to even be considered and 664 00:29:20,060 --> 00:29:18,570 then it has to be something really new 665 00:29:23,900 --> 00:29:20,070 and exciting that hasn't been covered 666 00:29:27,080 --> 00:29:23,910 other places and you know so it's it's 667 00:29:29,300 --> 00:29:27,090 just not that easy and but on the other 668 00:29:31,790 --> 00:29:29,310 reverse side of that coin is that if we 669 00:29:33,950 --> 00:29:31,800 do get something in The Times because of 670 00:29:36,950 --> 00:29:33,960 these very things I'm talking about it 671 00:29:39,050 --> 00:29:36,960 makes a huge impact because it's the 672 00:29:41,210 --> 00:29:39,060 paper of record and people know that 673 00:29:43,910 --> 00:29:41,220 when something's in the time it really 674 00:29:47,540 --> 00:29:43,920 it really means something so it's worth 675 00:29:49,610 --> 00:29:47,550 it to me to have to wait but also you 676 00:29:51,440 --> 00:29:49,620 know because then then the impact is 677 00:29:53,930 --> 00:29:51,450 much bigger than it would be anywhere 678 00:29:55,490 --> 00:29:53,940 else but you know it's very hard to find 679 00:29:57,710 --> 00:29:55,500 the kind of material that they can they 680 00:30:01,340 --> 00:29:57,720 can include so that's the dilemma right 681 00:30:03,110 --> 00:30:01,350 and a brothel Blumenthal has been on 682 00:30:05,060 --> 00:30:03,120 this show previous stuff thanks to you 683 00:30:07,370 --> 00:30:05,070 he actually connected me with him when 684 00:30:10,250 --> 00:30:07,380 he had that Vanity Fair article and 685 00:30:12,080 --> 00:30:10,260 revolt involving John Mac he came out 686 00:30:15,410 --> 00:30:12,090 with that several years ago and he was a 687 00:30:19,850 --> 00:30:15,420 co-author so as Helene Cooper and I 688 00:30:23,630 --> 00:30:19,860 believe that's who it is right yes yes 689 00:30:25,460 --> 00:30:23,640 and Helene was on the New York Times has 690 00:30:29,270 --> 00:30:25,470 a great podcast called the daily and 691 00:30:30,830 --> 00:30:29,280 they did a show also on that and that 692 00:30:33,290 --> 00:30:30,840 was really great I don't know you must 693 00:30:35,030 --> 00:30:33,300 have caught that did you I do remember 694 00:30:36,680 --> 00:30:35,040 that because I remember Helene didn't 695 00:30:38,660 --> 00:30:36,690 really liked there was so much demand 696 00:30:40,940 --> 00:30:38,670 for media after this story came out she 697 00:30:42,770 --> 00:30:40,950 didn't doesn't really like doing it plus 698 00:30:45,110 --> 00:30:42,780 she's full-time at the New York Times 699 00:30:47,030 --> 00:30:45,120 and you know she's being assigned 20,000 700 00:30:49,040 --> 00:30:47,040 stories at once you know she doesn't 701 00:30:50,600 --> 00:30:49,050 have a lot of time either but she I 702 00:30:52,940 --> 00:30:50,610 think that was one of the few things she 703 00:30:55,580 --> 00:30:52,950 did because it was a New York Times 704 00:30:57,560 --> 00:30:55,590 podcast I do remember and that's she's a 705 00:31:00,200 --> 00:30:57,570 pentagon a correspondent or something 706 00:31:02,120 --> 00:31:00,210 right she's a very high-level lady at 707 00:31:04,910 --> 00:31:02,130 the New York Times absolutely she's I 708 00:31:05,600 --> 00:31:04,920 think she's won prizes she's there there 709 00:31:08,570 --> 00:31:05,610 Penna Scott 710 00:31:12,289 --> 00:31:08,580 pentagons liaison Pentagon correspondent 711 00:31:14,480 --> 00:31:12,299 or you know reporters so we were so 712 00:31:17,840 --> 00:31:14,490 lucky morale thandai when they accepted 713 00:31:19,580 --> 00:31:17,850 our story to be handed you know to be 714 00:31:22,160 --> 00:31:19,590 told that Helene Cooper will be working 715 00:31:24,169 --> 00:31:22,170 with us I mean we couldn't have asked 716 00:31:26,299 --> 00:31:24,179 for a better person and she's the one 717 00:31:28,820 --> 00:31:26,309 that has the connections to the Pentagon 718 00:31:30,940 --> 00:31:28,830 and was able to set up an interview with 719 00:31:33,650 --> 00:31:30,950 Harry Reid and you know was really uh 720 00:31:35,840 --> 00:31:33,660 able to contribute a huge amount and 721 00:31:37,549 --> 00:31:35,850 kind of oversee the whole article 722 00:31:40,060 --> 00:31:37,559 because she's the one in the New York 723 00:31:42,890 --> 00:31:40,070 Times office where as Ralph and I are 724 00:31:45,799 --> 00:31:42,900 freelancers so it's it's different she 725 00:31:48,620 --> 00:31:45,809 was absolutely central to the article 726 00:31:51,860 --> 00:31:48,630 being able to be brought forward right 727 00:31:55,760 --> 00:31:51,870 and in the podcast she talks about 728 00:32:00,289 --> 00:31:55,770 meeting in this diner with a Lou 729 00:32:01,580 --> 00:32:00,299 Elizondo and how you know she I remember 730 00:32:03,830 --> 00:32:01,590 she said something about you know he 731 00:32:05,750 --> 00:32:03,840 kept looking I mean who is sitting in a 732 00:32:08,570 --> 00:32:05,760 place where no one could be behind him 733 00:32:10,130 --> 00:32:08,580 and he kept like looking around to you 734 00:32:12,530 --> 00:32:10,140 make make sure no one was there you know 735 00:32:16,760 --> 00:32:12,540 like he was nervous to talk about this 736 00:32:21,110 --> 00:32:16,770 with her but I remember Michael Barbera 737 00:32:23,419 --> 00:32:21,120 the interviewer asked her well do you 738 00:32:27,169 --> 00:32:23,429 think he's legitimate and she said yes 739 00:32:30,200 --> 00:32:27,179 and she said something about riding on 740 00:32:32,270 --> 00:32:30,210 the train back her thoughts were but 741 00:32:35,480 --> 00:32:32,280 like it was crazy but it there was 742 00:32:37,460 --> 00:32:35,490 really something to it yeah I mean I was 743 00:32:39,950 --> 00:32:37,470 with her then we Ralph and I both joined 744 00:32:41,390 --> 00:32:39,960 her for that interview with Elizondo and 745 00:32:43,100 --> 00:32:41,400 I remember that and I took the train 746 00:32:45,169 --> 00:32:43,110 with her from the New York Times office 747 00:32:47,630 --> 00:32:45,179 and I took the train back with her and 748 00:32:49,640 --> 00:32:47,640 it's true I mean he will Elizondo Lou 749 00:32:51,890 --> 00:32:49,650 Elizondo was was really nervous in those 750 00:32:52,909 --> 00:32:51,900 days and he was a bit frightened he 751 00:32:55,880 --> 00:32:52,919 didn't know what kind of repercussions 752 00:32:58,850 --> 00:32:55,890 might befall him as a result of coming 753 00:33:01,430 --> 00:32:58,860 out like this and so I remember he he 754 00:33:03,890 --> 00:33:01,440 was he or he would sit with his back to 755 00:33:06,470 --> 00:33:03,900 the wall always at a table that was sort 756 00:33:08,180 --> 00:33:06,480 of in a corner you know or kind of a wit 757 00:33:11,510 --> 00:33:08,190 but a table that was against the wall 758 00:33:14,000 --> 00:33:11,520 and where he could see the door at all 759 00:33:16,370 --> 00:33:14,010 times those were his two requirements so 760 00:33:18,649 --> 00:33:16,380 I remember her being struck by that yes 761 00:33:20,810 --> 00:33:18,659 it's just always on the lookout you know 762 00:33:22,460 --> 00:33:20,820 and he didn't know if he was being 763 00:33:24,259 --> 00:33:22,470 surveilled or if somebody might be 764 00:33:26,060 --> 00:33:24,269 watching him or what was you know he was 765 00:33:28,940 --> 00:33:26,070 just in a very a very vulnerable state 766 00:33:31,700 --> 00:33:28,950 at that time are you surprised that he's 767 00:33:33,950 --> 00:33:31,710 never had any known repercussions I've 768 00:33:37,399 --> 00:33:33,960 never heard of any and when I spoke to 769 00:33:40,639 --> 00:33:37,409 him he never mentioned any well I think 770 00:33:41,749 --> 00:33:40,649 he's had some harassment but you know 771 00:33:44,779 --> 00:33:41,759 maybe it's not something he wants to 772 00:33:46,399 --> 00:33:44,789 talk about publicly but I mean so I 773 00:33:49,249 --> 00:33:46,409 can't really comment on that I think 774 00:33:51,649 --> 00:33:49,259 he's you know he's had some pushback 775 00:33:55,639 --> 00:33:51,659 from various places maybe within the DoD 776 00:33:59,930 --> 00:33:55,649 or whatever but nothing I don't think 777 00:34:01,789 --> 00:33:59,940 anything super serious but I don't think 778 00:34:06,289 --> 00:34:01,799 it was easy for him those first six 779 00:34:08,450 --> 00:34:06,299 months and I think he was nervous and 780 00:34:09,619 --> 00:34:08,460 understandably so about what he was 781 00:34:11,149 --> 00:34:09,629 doing you know coming out with this 782 00:34:14,750 --> 00:34:11,159 information and writing this letter to 783 00:34:16,279 --> 00:34:14,760 the Secretary of Defense and exposing 784 00:34:18,409 --> 00:34:16,289 the existence of a program that was 785 00:34:20,299 --> 00:34:18,419 supposed to be kept secret it was he it 786 00:34:23,029 --> 00:34:20,309 was a big big deal for somebody to do 787 00:34:25,010 --> 00:34:23,039 that and I I admired his courage I 788 00:34:27,319 --> 00:34:25,020 thought he was taking a risk and he knew 789 00:34:28,909 --> 00:34:27,329 he was taking a risk so it's 790 00:34:30,500 --> 00:34:28,919 understandable he would have been sort 791 00:34:32,629 --> 00:34:30,510 of on the lookout especially being an 792 00:34:35,450 --> 00:34:32,639 intelligence officer who's kind of used 793 00:34:38,539 --> 00:34:35,460 to being in dangerous situations you 794 00:34:39,919 --> 00:34:38,549 know he's kind of primed for being on 795 00:34:43,519 --> 00:34:39,929 the lookout in a certain way 796 00:34:47,329 --> 00:34:43,529 yeah when I met him down in Cherry Hill 797 00:34:50,450 --> 00:34:47,339 a couple summers ago I guess it was he 798 00:34:53,269 --> 00:34:50,460 you know basically when before I met him 799 00:34:56,329 --> 00:34:53,279 I watched him you know at a talk he did 800 00:34:59,299 --> 00:34:56,339 he basically said don't trust me you 801 00:35:02,140 --> 00:34:59,309 know check the facts you know you know 802 00:35:05,150 --> 00:35:02,150 he's I I don't I don't blame anyone who 803 00:35:06,079 --> 00:35:05,160 wants to look into things that that 804 00:35:07,940 --> 00:35:06,089 doesn't want to take my word for 805 00:35:08,660 --> 00:35:07,950 something you know check it all out 806 00:35:10,880 --> 00:35:08,670 yourself 807 00:35:15,140 --> 00:35:10,890 that type of thing do you think there 808 00:35:16,760 --> 00:35:15,150 has been anything to you know I mean 809 00:35:19,789 --> 00:35:16,770 there is a lot of controversy there has 810 00:35:21,620 --> 00:35:19,799 been you know since since day one I 811 00:35:23,809 --> 00:35:21,630 guess we can just talk about that a 812 00:35:27,049 --> 00:35:23,819 little bit do you think that there's a 813 00:35:29,870 --> 00:35:27,059 lot of people in the UFO field that felt 814 00:35:31,490 --> 00:35:29,880 oh I don't know maybe left out because 815 00:35:32,390 --> 00:35:31,500 they've been working so hard all these 816 00:35:33,829 --> 00:35:32,400 years 817 00:35:37,089 --> 00:35:33,839 no trying to get information and then 818 00:35:39,829 --> 00:35:37,099 you know out of nowhere this happened I 819 00:35:43,059 --> 00:35:39,839 have no idea how people were feeling I 820 00:35:45,680 --> 00:35:43,069 really don't Martin I mean um I just 821 00:35:47,630 --> 00:35:45,690 know that all I was concerned about was 822 00:35:51,680 --> 00:35:47,640 doing my job of getting the story out 823 00:35:53,299 --> 00:35:51,690 and I mean everybody in the UFO field 824 00:35:55,309 --> 00:35:53,309 contributes to things like this 825 00:35:57,440 --> 00:35:55,319 happening because it's a conglomeration 826 00:36:01,069 --> 00:35:57,450 of work that goes on and work that comes 827 00:36:03,339 --> 00:36:01,079 out and you know I I too had spent many 828 00:36:08,180 --> 00:36:03,349 many years working on this this topic 829 00:36:09,230 --> 00:36:08,190 and I was a journalist that happened to 830 00:36:11,329 --> 00:36:09,240 have this connection to the New York 831 00:36:13,160 --> 00:36:11,339 Times so I was the logical person for 832 00:36:14,359 --> 00:36:13,170 them to approach and I knew some of the 833 00:36:16,640 --> 00:36:14,369 people it wasn't 834 00:36:18,260 --> 00:36:16,650 Elizondo who actually came to me it was 835 00:36:20,000 --> 00:36:18,270 his some of his associates and they were 836 00:36:23,150 --> 00:36:20,010 people that I had known for a long time 837 00:36:25,880 --> 00:36:23,160 and they trusted me so the process 838 00:36:28,970 --> 00:36:25,890 seemed very natural at the time you know 839 00:36:30,620 --> 00:36:28,980 and they knew that that perhaps I could 840 00:36:34,069 --> 00:36:30,630 get it into the New York Times which 841 00:36:36,109 --> 00:36:34,079 would be the number one choice so you 842 00:36:38,150 --> 00:36:36,119 know I yeah I can't comment on how 843 00:36:40,220 --> 00:36:38,160 anybody else would feel about that but I 844 00:36:41,720 --> 00:36:40,230 I think people everyone was pretty 845 00:36:43,819 --> 00:36:41,730 excited about it when it happened 846 00:36:47,059 --> 00:36:43,829 as far as I know all right so if we 847 00:36:49,010 --> 00:36:47,069 could let's let's step back and if we 848 00:36:52,220 --> 00:36:49,020 could we could start from the beginning 849 00:36:55,549 --> 00:36:52,230 of how this whole thing came about I 850 00:36:58,029 --> 00:36:55,559 know I think believe it was October mmm 851 00:37:02,240 --> 00:36:58,039 sometime in October of that same year 852 00:37:04,250 --> 00:37:02,250 there had the to the Stars Academy they 853 00:37:06,440 --> 00:37:04,260 had their little video conference and 854 00:37:08,539 --> 00:37:06,450 basically this stuff was coming out 855 00:37:10,700 --> 00:37:08,549 during the radio conference and then 856 00:37:13,510 --> 00:37:10,710 from that point on can you explain how 857 00:37:16,069 --> 00:37:13,520 that story that article came together 858 00:37:18,440 --> 00:37:16,079 yeah I mean actually the way it all 859 00:37:21,349 --> 00:37:18,450 started was I was invited to a meeting 860 00:37:24,260 --> 00:37:21,359 in Washington to meet Lou Elizondo by 861 00:37:27,109 --> 00:37:24,270 these three colleagues of his who I had 862 00:37:30,529 --> 00:37:27,119 known for a long time and I think I mean 863 00:37:32,750 --> 00:37:30,539 if I don't think it's a secret they - it 864 00:37:36,380 --> 00:37:32,760 was Christopher Mellon and how put off 865 00:37:37,339 --> 00:37:36,390 in Jim's Emma van who were there and I 866 00:37:39,680 --> 00:37:37,349 think it was Christopher Mellon who 867 00:37:43,400 --> 00:37:39,690 actually made the invitation but this 868 00:37:44,960 --> 00:37:43,410 this meeting happened before the press 869 00:37:45,850 --> 00:37:44,970 conference in which they announced the 870 00:37:50,020 --> 00:37:45,860 existence of 871 00:37:52,380 --> 00:37:50,030 stars so this was in October 4th and 872 00:37:55,300 --> 00:37:52,390 that meeting was at Oh October 11th and 873 00:37:57,160 --> 00:37:55,310 I didn't know a whole lot about to the 874 00:38:00,370 --> 00:37:57,170 stars at that point I mean I went there 875 00:38:02,260 --> 00:38:00,380 specifically to meet Lou Elizondo and I 876 00:38:05,680 --> 00:38:02,270 had known Christopher Mellon for years I 877 00:38:07,240 --> 00:38:05,690 had known how put off for years so you 878 00:38:09,070 --> 00:38:07,250 know it was them I was focused more on 879 00:38:10,210 --> 00:38:09,080 the individuals involved than I was to 880 00:38:12,160 --> 00:38:10,220 the Stars and then about a week later 881 00:38:14,050 --> 00:38:12,170 they did the press conference and 882 00:38:17,380 --> 00:38:14,060 announced the existence of to the stars 883 00:38:19,900 --> 00:38:17,390 and we just kept on pursuing the article 884 00:38:21,730 --> 00:38:19,910 where Lou Elizondo was our main source 885 00:38:24,370 --> 00:38:21,740 because we were writing about the 886 00:38:26,590 --> 00:38:24,380 existence of a tip the government agency 887 00:38:28,390 --> 00:38:26,600 which really didn't have a lot to do 888 00:38:31,380 --> 00:38:28,400 with to the stars but the two stars 889 00:38:34,990 --> 00:38:31,390 people of course were very helpful to us 890 00:38:36,670 --> 00:38:35,000 so they you know it wasn't that really 891 00:38:38,350 --> 00:38:36,680 the focus of the story was about the 892 00:38:42,490 --> 00:38:38,360 government program how it got started 893 00:38:44,860 --> 00:38:42,500 how it was funded how many years it went 894 00:38:46,660 --> 00:38:44,870 what did it do who ran and things like 895 00:38:50,260 --> 00:38:46,670 that it was just to establish the 896 00:38:54,610 --> 00:38:50,270 existence of the program basically I see 897 00:38:58,180 --> 00:38:54,620 and and so it just basically gaint 898 00:39:00,220 --> 00:38:58,190 gained momentum and then you you was it 899 00:39:02,200 --> 00:39:00,230 you who actually went to the New York 900 00:39:04,450 --> 00:39:02,210 Times to see if they would yeah I mean 901 00:39:07,180 --> 00:39:04,460 what actually happened was after that 902 00:39:08,770 --> 00:39:07,190 meeting I was I was absolutely blown 903 00:39:12,010 --> 00:39:08,780 away by that meeting first of all 904 00:39:14,020 --> 00:39:12,020 because of what I was shown there I mean 905 00:39:16,030 --> 00:39:14,030 I nobody at that point knew that this 906 00:39:20,200 --> 00:39:16,040 program existed and I was shown 907 00:39:24,370 --> 00:39:20,210 documentation about it and I was shown 908 00:39:27,160 --> 00:39:24,380 information about how it got set up in 909 00:39:29,830 --> 00:39:27,170 documents about I've shown the letter 910 00:39:32,020 --> 00:39:29,840 that Lou Elizondo wrote to secretary 911 00:39:33,580 --> 00:39:32,030 mattis when he resigned it was actually 912 00:39:35,890 --> 00:39:33,590 the very day that he resigned was the 913 00:39:40,450 --> 00:39:35,900 day I met him and all this documentation 914 00:39:41,860 --> 00:39:40,460 that has since kind of come out in bits 915 00:39:45,010 --> 00:39:41,870 and pieces I think George Knapp has 916 00:39:47,610 --> 00:39:45,020 released a lot of it but I was shown a 917 00:39:50,080 --> 00:39:47,620 lot of stuff from Lou Elizondo 918 00:39:51,850 --> 00:39:50,090 documenting who he was with in the 919 00:39:55,240 --> 00:39:51,860 Pentagon and what his job was and his 920 00:39:57,040 --> 00:39:55,250 job performance ratings and a whole lot 921 00:39:59,320 --> 00:39:57,050 of stuff plus I got to talk to him for a 922 00:39:59,590 --> 00:39:59,330 couple of hours and just connect and 923 00:40:01,330 --> 00:39:59,600 hear 924 00:40:03,130 --> 00:40:01,340 about him and you're about what was 925 00:40:06,070 --> 00:40:03,140 going on there and then I was also shown 926 00:40:08,890 --> 00:40:06,080 these three videos and I was shown 927 00:40:11,650 --> 00:40:08,900 documentation to prove that they were 928 00:40:14,050 --> 00:40:11,660 actual Department of Defense videos and 929 00:40:17,110 --> 00:40:14,060 that they've been cleared for release by 930 00:40:19,840 --> 00:40:17,120 the department so it was enough for me 931 00:40:21,310 --> 00:40:19,850 to realize that this was a potential 932 00:40:23,050 --> 00:40:21,320 story for the New York Times because of 933 00:40:24,580 --> 00:40:23,060 all the documentation and because these 934 00:40:27,220 --> 00:40:24,590 people Lou was willing to go on the 935 00:40:29,170 --> 00:40:27,230 record with this so the next step was I 936 00:40:32,080 --> 00:40:29,180 went to my colleague Ralph Blumenthal 937 00:40:34,540 --> 00:40:32,090 who had worked at the times for a long 938 00:40:36,280 --> 00:40:34,550 time I used to be on staff full time and 939 00:40:38,080 --> 00:40:36,290 he was now a freelancer at that point I 940 00:40:40,420 --> 00:40:38,090 wasn't even a freelancer for The Times 941 00:40:44,530 --> 00:40:40,430 I am now but I brought the story to 942 00:40:47,020 --> 00:40:44,540 Ralph we talked about it and he came 943 00:40:49,360 --> 00:40:47,030 down and we met again with with Lou and 944 00:40:52,300 --> 00:40:49,370 I introduced Ralph to him and we met 945 00:40:54,190 --> 00:40:52,310 with Lou in Philadelphia and had a long 946 00:40:56,080 --> 00:40:54,200 meeting with with him and Ralph where 947 00:40:59,740 --> 00:40:56,090 Ralph got to see all the things I saw 948 00:41:02,530 --> 00:40:59,750 and he got to talk to Lou and then Ralph 949 00:41:04,150 --> 00:41:02,540 went and pitched the story to an editor 950 00:41:05,740 --> 00:41:04,160 at the New York Times that he knew and 951 00:41:07,570 --> 00:41:05,750 is this just this whole process of it 952 00:41:10,510 --> 00:41:07,580 going from one person to another he 953 00:41:13,000 --> 00:41:10,520 pitched the story and then we made he 954 00:41:15,280 --> 00:41:13,010 and I both met with Mark Mazzetti who's 955 00:41:17,590 --> 00:41:15,290 the director of investigations and the 956 00:41:20,140 --> 00:41:17,600 bureau the Times bureau in Washington DC 957 00:41:22,060 --> 00:41:20,150 a very very high level person at the New 958 00:41:25,090 --> 00:41:22,070 York Times he happened to be in New York 959 00:41:26,800 --> 00:41:25,100 so we sat down with him and at this 960 00:41:29,290 --> 00:41:26,810 point I had collected a lot of these 961 00:41:30,640 --> 00:41:29,300 documents and we laid them out on the 962 00:41:32,320 --> 00:41:30,650 table because they've been provided to 963 00:41:34,720 --> 00:41:32,330 me lay them out on the table for him 964 00:41:36,850 --> 00:41:34,730 showed him what we had said here is the 965 00:41:38,410 --> 00:41:36,860 story told him the story that this 966 00:41:40,870 --> 00:41:38,420 program actually exists and we can 967 00:41:42,100 --> 00:41:40,880 document that people are all willing to 968 00:41:43,480 --> 00:41:42,110 go in there record all the things he 969 00:41:45,940 --> 00:41:43,490 needed to hear and he said okay I'm 970 00:41:47,320 --> 00:41:45,950 gonna take it back to the Washington 971 00:41:48,970 --> 00:41:47,330 bureau and I'll get back to you and let 972 00:41:51,700 --> 00:41:48,980 you know and we heard about a week later 973 00:41:53,260 --> 00:41:51,710 that they they green-lighted the article 974 00:41:54,880 --> 00:41:53,270 and that they were gonna assign Helene 975 00:41:58,120 --> 00:41:54,890 Cooper to work with us and so that's how 976 00:42:01,060 --> 00:41:58,130 it all got in play it all took a while 977 00:42:02,920 --> 00:42:01,070 yeah then you know then once it's in 978 00:42:05,380 --> 00:42:02,930 play then we have to do the work of 979 00:42:07,450 --> 00:42:05,390 actually putting the story together and 980 00:42:09,850 --> 00:42:07,460 that was a process that took a lot of 981 00:42:12,400 --> 00:42:09,860 time and energy and there's very tight 982 00:42:12,940 --> 00:42:12,410 editing and that goes on at the Times I 983 00:42:14,380 --> 00:42:12,950 mean 984 00:42:16,359 --> 00:42:14,390 I was used to writing for the Huffington 985 00:42:18,960 --> 00:42:16,369 Post or I could literally say anything I 986 00:42:21,690 --> 00:42:18,970 wanted and for the New York Times 987 00:42:24,490 --> 00:42:21,700 everything is vetted very very closely 988 00:42:26,470 --> 00:42:24,500 you you know things you think are 989 00:42:28,660 --> 00:42:26,480 important or taken out and things you 990 00:42:30,970 --> 00:42:28,670 don't want in or put it put in and you 991 00:42:33,280 --> 00:42:30,980 know there's a lot of people involved 992 00:42:36,400 --> 00:42:33,290 and and you it eventually gets whittled 993 00:42:38,380 --> 00:42:36,410 down to what is probably the best story 994 00:42:39,880 --> 00:42:38,390 it can be because of all of that process 995 00:42:42,069 --> 00:42:39,890 that goes on but it's a long process 996 00:42:46,210 --> 00:42:42,079 it's a long process when you say a long 997 00:42:47,740 --> 00:42:46,220 process about how long well I would say 998 00:42:50,140 --> 00:42:47,750 probably took about two months because 999 00:42:53,980 --> 00:42:50,150 by the time we got the the green light 1000 00:42:57,130 --> 00:42:53,990 it must have been November yeah maybe 1001 00:42:58,510 --> 00:42:57,140 I'd say about two months I mean because 1002 00:43:00,400 --> 00:42:58,520 we Ralph and I were already doing a lot 1003 00:43:02,170 --> 00:43:00,410 of work before we even got the green 1004 00:43:05,950 --> 00:43:02,180 light I mean it's hard to pinpoint 1005 00:43:07,720 --> 00:43:05,960 exactly when it started but I think we I 1006 00:43:09,430 --> 00:43:07,730 don't remember that maybe towards the 1007 00:43:11,440 --> 00:43:09,440 end of October is when we really went 1008 00:43:12,760 --> 00:43:11,450 full full blast for the New York Times 1009 00:43:15,849 --> 00:43:12,770 and then it came out towards the end of 1010 00:43:19,480 --> 00:43:15,859 December so and we worked really hard on 1011 00:43:22,300 --> 00:43:19,490 it full-time three people so just I 1012 00:43:23,859 --> 00:43:22,310 don't think people understand how 1013 00:43:25,450 --> 00:43:23,869 time-consuming it is because they just 1014 00:43:27,309 --> 00:43:25,460 read an article and it's not like we 1015 00:43:29,890 --> 00:43:27,319 just sit down I wrote it you know yeah 1016 00:43:31,990 --> 00:43:29,900 there's such a process that goes on and 1017 00:43:34,059 --> 00:43:32,000 so many interviews that you do and a lot 1018 00:43:36,490 --> 00:43:34,069 of them you never even use and nobody 1019 00:43:38,859 --> 00:43:36,500 knows about all you do that doesn't get 1020 00:43:40,870 --> 00:43:38,869 used well but and you do a lot of stuff 1021 00:43:42,460 --> 00:43:40,880 on background with people off the record 1022 00:43:45,730 --> 00:43:42,470 who won't even have wanted me to be part 1023 00:43:46,930 --> 00:43:45,740 of the story and it's just um a lot that 1024 00:43:48,700 --> 00:43:46,940 goes on and putting a story together 1025 00:43:50,710 --> 00:43:48,710 like that well and then we did the 1026 00:43:52,359 --> 00:43:50,720 second bit about Dave flavour too and 1027 00:43:54,490 --> 00:43:52,369 that was another another component you 1028 00:43:56,349 --> 00:43:54,500 know the Nimitz case and we we also I 1029 00:43:58,720 --> 00:43:56,359 met I went down to Washington and met 1030 00:44:01,079 --> 00:43:58,730 with Helene Cooper and met him in person 1031 00:44:03,819 --> 00:44:01,089 the three of us had dinner together and 1032 00:44:06,010 --> 00:44:03,829 you know we also put together that story 1033 00:44:07,770 --> 00:44:06,020 so it was almost like a second story in 1034 00:44:10,690 --> 00:44:07,780 a way that came out at the same time 1035 00:44:13,390 --> 00:44:10,700 well you know so much goes into it 1036 00:44:15,430 --> 00:44:13,400 behind the scenes and I believe Randall 1037 00:44:18,480 --> 00:44:15,440 Nickerson is listening to the show 1038 00:44:20,680 --> 00:44:18,490 tonight and he has told me you know he 1039 00:44:23,589 --> 00:44:20,690 talked I'm just talking about the amount 1040 00:44:26,109 --> 00:44:23,599 of time I forget how many hours he said 1041 00:44:26,380 --> 00:44:26,119 that he had that he whittled through but 1042 00:44:32,430 --> 00:44:26,390 it was 1043 00:44:36,430 --> 00:44:32,440 that he whittled down to make his film 1044 00:44:40,329 --> 00:44:36,440 the phenomena the phenomenon no no wait 1045 00:44:43,269 --> 00:44:40,339 the aerial phenomena great movies coming 1046 00:44:48,730 --> 00:44:43,279 out this year yeah the aerial phenomenon 1047 00:44:51,400 --> 00:44:48,740 and thief enough that's right yeah so 1048 00:44:53,500 --> 00:44:51,410 but the amount of hours a lot of people 1049 00:44:55,240 --> 00:44:53,510 never understand they always see the 1050 00:44:57,309 --> 00:44:55,250 finished product and we just kind of 1051 00:44:58,480 --> 00:44:57,319 assume oh yeah they you know they put 1052 00:45:00,009 --> 00:44:58,490 this together it's probably any 1053 00:45:02,289 --> 00:45:00,019 front-page article in the New York Times 1054 00:45:05,980 --> 00:45:02,299 is going to have that type of scrutiny 1055 00:45:08,410 --> 00:45:05,990 especially on a topic like this do you 1056 00:45:10,089 --> 00:45:08,420 think it's great but not this not a 1057 00:45:11,829 --> 00:45:10,099 hundred worth the equivalent of a 1058 00:45:13,720 --> 00:45:11,839 hundred hours of footage I have to say 1059 00:45:16,299 --> 00:45:13,730 that's that's gonna take a lot longer to 1060 00:45:17,829 --> 00:45:16,309 go through yeah what we did do you think 1061 00:45:19,779 --> 00:45:17,839 let me just ask you this do you think 1062 00:45:23,470 --> 00:45:19,789 this article in particular had more 1063 00:45:25,450 --> 00:45:23,480 scrutiny than most articles I don't know 1064 00:45:27,789 --> 00:45:25,460 it's a good question Martin I mean I'm 1065 00:45:29,829 --> 00:45:27,799 assuming it probably had quite a bit of 1066 00:45:31,529 --> 00:45:29,839 scrutiny because of the topic so maybe 1067 00:45:34,120 --> 00:45:31,539 it did have more and also the fact that 1068 00:45:36,579 --> 00:45:34,130 you know Ralph and I are not regular 1069 00:45:38,380 --> 00:45:36,589 writers for the times so they had to 1070 00:45:41,309 --> 00:45:38,390 sort of oversee what we were doing 1071 00:45:43,539 --> 00:45:41,319 certainly Helene Cooper is but um I 1072 00:45:46,480 --> 00:45:43,549 suspect it probably had more than the 1073 00:45:48,099 --> 00:45:46,490 average article but you know I don't 1074 00:45:50,140 --> 00:45:48,109 know about but you know some of they are 1075 00:45:53,410 --> 00:45:50,150 this the the journalists who write for 1076 00:45:55,329 --> 00:45:53,420 the paper almost every day and you know 1077 00:45:57,190 --> 00:45:55,339 I doubt that those articles require the 1078 00:46:02,019 --> 00:45:57,200 kind of editorial oversight that ours 1079 00:46:04,660 --> 00:46:02,029 did so they're oftentimes there's as you 1080 00:46:07,769 --> 00:46:04,670 know yourself there's a push back oh by 1081 00:46:09,670 --> 00:46:07,779 the way if you if you search on Google 1082 00:46:14,680 --> 00:46:09,680 anyone out there if your search on 1083 00:46:17,680 --> 00:46:14,690 Google book like you're looking for a 1084 00:46:19,480 --> 00:46:17,690 book about UFOs you probably aware this 1085 00:46:23,170 --> 00:46:19,490 aware of this that your book comes up 1086 00:46:24,339 --> 00:46:23,180 the first on Google because I wasn't 1087 00:46:30,490 --> 00:46:24,349 aware that because I've never searched 1088 00:46:32,140 --> 00:46:30,500 that before as someone who I like to you 1089 00:46:34,299 --> 00:46:32,150 know I'd like to get new guests on this 1090 00:46:35,650 --> 00:46:34,309 show all the time and a lot of times up 1091 00:46:37,930 --> 00:46:35,660 there'll be someone new that's never 1092 00:46:39,220 --> 00:46:37,940 written about UFOs and they'll write a 1093 00:46:39,940 --> 00:46:39,230 book and I'll try to get them on I 1094 00:46:42,940 --> 00:46:39,950 actually have 1095 00:46:46,990 --> 00:46:42,950 coming up by Camry Dave Halpern I think 1096 00:46:50,109 --> 00:46:47,000 it is might be but so what I do is I go 1097 00:46:52,270 --> 00:46:50,119 on Google and I just do book UFOs and 1098 00:46:54,760 --> 00:46:52,280 then I go into Amazon from there and try 1099 00:46:57,670 --> 00:46:54,770 to look at the most recent books and I'm 1100 00:46:59,829 --> 00:46:57,680 giving all my podcasts people out there 1101 00:47:01,660 --> 00:46:59,839 that do podcasts a little tip on how to 1102 00:47:02,950 --> 00:47:01,670 get guests but a lot of people want to 1103 00:47:05,740 --> 00:47:02,960 of course want to talk about their new 1104 00:47:10,270 --> 00:47:05,750 book but anyway yours comes up number 1105 00:47:11,620 --> 00:47:10,280 one and I would say I always I always 1106 00:47:14,950 --> 00:47:11,630 mess up the title can you tell me the 1107 00:47:16,990 --> 00:47:14,960 title of that sure it's UFOs generals 1108 00:47:20,170 --> 00:47:17,000 pilots and government officials go on 1109 00:47:22,180 --> 00:47:20,180 the record that's right that is just 1110 00:47:24,040 --> 00:47:22,190 that's one of the first books I read in 1111 00:47:26,230 --> 00:47:24,050 a very very good book it's still 1112 00:47:27,700 --> 00:47:26,240 available as far as I know right 1113 00:47:30,760 --> 00:47:27,710 it's still available yeah it's it's 1114 00:47:32,859 --> 00:47:30,770 amazing how I mean it's still getting a 1115 00:47:34,450 --> 00:47:32,869 lot of play and you know as you say a 1116 00:47:36,609 --> 00:47:34,460 lot of people are still buying that book 1117 00:47:39,550 --> 00:47:36,619 even though it came out in 2010 but it's 1118 00:47:41,740 --> 00:47:39,560 kind of a timeless book so and it has it 1119 00:47:45,040 --> 00:47:41,750 keeps getting exposure through various I 1120 00:47:48,069 --> 00:47:45,050 don't know what's television shows or 1121 00:47:49,390 --> 00:47:48,079 interviews or whatever and then of 1122 00:47:51,910 --> 00:47:49,400 course when this New York Times story 1123 00:47:53,530 --> 00:47:51,920 came out it did it got exposure and then 1124 00:47:56,500 --> 00:47:53,540 I did media interviews where it got 1125 00:47:59,170 --> 00:47:56,510 exposure so it's it's still very much 1126 00:48:01,690 --> 00:47:59,180 alive out there yeah yeah it's a great 1127 00:48:03,640 --> 00:48:01,700 one we're about way miles we'll take it 1128 00:48:06,069 --> 00:48:03,650 into the break because we're at about 1129 00:48:07,780 --> 00:48:06,079 that time right now so we're going to 1130 00:48:10,960 --> 00:48:07,790 head into a break and we'll be back and 1131 00:48:12,579 --> 00:48:10,970 when we do come back we're gonna talk 1132 00:48:14,920 --> 00:48:12,589 for about another oh I don't know half 1133 00:48:16,690 --> 00:48:14,930 hour or so and then we'll take calls and 1134 00:48:19,420 --> 00:48:16,700 so if you want to write that number down 1135 00:48:23,760 --> 00:48:19,430 that's oops I don't have it up in front 1136 00:48:25,690 --> 00:48:23,770 of me eight five seven four seven two 1137 00:48:27,790 --> 00:48:25,700 five four eight three and that's what 1138 00:48:30,880 --> 00:48:27,800 I'm thinking but hang on just a second 1139 00:48:37,380 --> 00:48:30,890 let me get that number up I'll do that 1140 00:48:40,150 --> 00:48:37,390 again if you want to call that number is 1141 00:48:42,700 --> 00:48:40,160 eight five five four seven two I think 1142 00:48:44,589 --> 00:48:42,710 it did have that backwards 85 five four 1143 00:48:48,700 --> 00:48:44,599 seven two five 43 that's going to be in 1144 00:48:50,890 --> 00:48:48,710 the half hour after we come back so 1145 00:48:53,710 --> 00:48:50,900 again hang in everyone we'll be right 1146 00:48:55,960 --> 00:48:53,720 back right after these messages 1147 00:49:00,250 --> 00:48:55,970 all right everyone welcome back my guest 1148 00:49:02,950 --> 00:49:00,260 now is Leslie Kane and when we went off 1149 00:49:06,099 --> 00:49:02,960 the air we were talking about you know 1150 00:49:07,150 --> 00:49:06,109 the different articles and the second 1151 00:49:10,150 --> 00:49:07,160 article I want to talk a little more 1152 00:49:14,230 --> 00:49:10,160 about you mentioned Leslie that you met 1153 00:49:17,529 --> 00:49:14,240 up with David flavor and I consider you 1154 00:49:20,319 --> 00:49:17,539 know I've watched a lot of a lot of 1155 00:49:23,859 --> 00:49:20,329 shows where he's talking you know about 1156 00:49:27,160 --> 00:49:23,869 this situation and it really is amazing 1157 00:49:30,720 --> 00:49:27,170 how is he in person to talk to 1158 00:49:33,339 --> 00:49:30,730 oh he was fantastic I mean very 1159 00:49:35,859 --> 00:49:33,349 energetic and very talkative 1160 00:49:37,539 --> 00:49:35,869 we had a long Helene Cooper and I had a 1161 00:49:40,690 --> 00:49:37,549 long meeting with him and we went over 1162 00:49:44,410 --> 00:49:40,700 the whole case and he was absolutely an 1163 00:49:47,980 --> 00:49:44,420 enjoyable lively enthusiastic and very 1164 00:49:49,569 --> 00:49:47,990 smart person we enjoyed it a lot yeah 1165 00:49:51,490 --> 00:49:49,579 well they're there you know I mean a 1166 00:49:53,349 --> 00:49:51,500 fighter pilot someone like him and then 1167 00:49:55,120 --> 00:49:53,359 he was not only that he was a lead or 1168 00:49:58,150 --> 00:49:55,130 something I don't know what the terms 1169 00:49:59,829 --> 00:49:58,160 are exactly and I apologize if I'm 1170 00:50:02,140 --> 00:49:59,839 offending anyone because I don't know 1171 00:50:07,870 --> 00:50:02,150 what those terms are but he wasn't just 1172 00:50:09,490 --> 00:50:07,880 a fighter pilot he was a head of very 1173 00:50:11,740 --> 00:50:09,500 highly trained very highly skilled 1174 00:50:14,019 --> 00:50:11,750 person I mean that's true he wasn't just 1175 00:50:16,809 --> 00:50:14,029 your average pilot and even their 1176 00:50:18,460 --> 00:50:16,819 average fighter pilot is you know quite 1177 00:50:20,349 --> 00:50:18,470 a superhuman to begin with 1178 00:50:22,839 --> 00:50:20,359 exactly you're not going to put someone 1179 00:50:25,029 --> 00:50:22,849 in a whatever millions of dollar piece 1180 00:50:27,099 --> 00:50:25,039 of equipment that isn't you know highly 1181 00:50:29,440 --> 00:50:27,109 skilled and highly intelligent and all 1182 00:50:32,049 --> 00:50:29,450 in all that I mean he was a commander at 1183 00:50:33,579 --> 00:50:32,059 the time but I don't know if that mean I 1184 00:50:36,519 --> 00:50:33,589 don't know exactly what that means I'm 1185 00:50:38,440 --> 00:50:36,529 not I'm execute I'm sorry I don't know 1186 00:50:41,049 --> 00:50:38,450 more about what it was actually his 1187 00:50:43,109 --> 00:50:41,059 broth was but he I know he was very at a 1188 00:50:46,079 --> 00:50:43,119 high level within the within the Navy 1189 00:50:51,010 --> 00:50:46,089 and I heard him on AI was a great 1190 00:50:52,809 --> 00:50:51,020 podcast that a someone that just did was 1191 00:50:54,660 --> 00:50:52,819 a fighter pilot himself and he actually 1192 00:50:57,579 --> 00:50:54,670 I had him I actually had him on the show 1193 00:51:00,490 --> 00:50:57,589 talked about it but I heard you know a 1194 00:51:02,710 --> 00:51:00,500 skeptic interview him and just you know 1195 00:51:04,630 --> 00:51:02,720 it was really a good show to listen to 1196 00:51:06,410 --> 00:51:04,640 because you know he's talking straight 1197 00:51:07,880 --> 00:51:06,420 talk with them 1198 00:51:10,160 --> 00:51:07,890 with him and you know he's just said 1199 00:51:11,839 --> 00:51:10,170 well I just can't can't tell you what it 1200 00:51:15,410 --> 00:51:11,849 was but I'll tell you what I saw it do 1201 00:51:19,089 --> 00:51:15,420 and and that whole whole situation is 1202 00:51:22,220 --> 00:51:19,099 really back that kind of snowballed 1203 00:51:25,430 --> 00:51:22,230 didn't it that whole thing yeah I mean 1204 00:51:28,880 --> 00:51:25,440 he he he was so sought after by the 1205 00:51:30,920 --> 00:51:28,890 media yes incredibly in the weeks after 1206 00:51:33,680 --> 00:51:30,930 the story came out but but even ever 1207 00:51:35,750 --> 00:51:33,690 since I mean he's been on and he didn't 1208 00:51:38,210 --> 00:51:35,760 shy away from media so he did a lot of 1209 00:51:40,099 --> 00:51:38,220 it and I think he might have even gone 1210 00:51:41,539 --> 00:51:40,109 to some conferences I have no idea but 1211 00:51:44,420 --> 00:51:41,549 he's definitely been very much out in 1212 00:51:48,500 --> 00:51:44,430 the public arena and that was his choice 1213 00:51:52,609 --> 00:51:48,510 to do that and that's what he did you 1214 00:51:54,680 --> 00:51:52,619 know and someone of his level you know I 1215 00:51:57,200 --> 00:51:54,690 mean you wonder how much grieve I know 1216 00:51:58,670 --> 00:51:57,210 he got grief right away like the next 1217 00:52:01,250 --> 00:51:58,680 day they were actually teasing him they 1218 00:52:04,549 --> 00:52:01,260 put like a cartoon in the the paper that 1219 00:52:07,609 --> 00:52:04,559 they published there on the on the not 1220 00:52:09,589 --> 00:52:07,619 the Princeton was it the Princeton yeah 1221 00:52:13,370 --> 00:52:09,599 the Princeton or the MIT so wherever 1222 00:52:15,650 --> 00:52:13,380 whichever one he was on yeah and so he 1223 00:52:17,890 --> 00:52:15,660 did he did get some grief from that but 1224 00:52:22,370 --> 00:52:17,900 I'm really glad that he did choose to 1225 00:52:24,740 --> 00:52:22,380 actually talk about it and you know that 1226 00:52:28,400 --> 00:52:24,750 it just really helped to push that along 1227 00:52:29,960 --> 00:52:28,410 and I agree he was absolutely really 1228 00:52:31,010 --> 00:52:29,970 really important in all of this I 1229 00:52:34,250 --> 00:52:31,020 absolutely agree with you 1230 00:52:36,680 --> 00:52:34,260 now I know that when once your article 1231 00:52:40,220 --> 00:52:36,690 came out all of a sudden there was a 1232 00:52:40,819 --> 00:52:40,230 deluge of news stories on all the 1233 00:52:42,950 --> 00:52:40,829 networks 1234 00:52:46,700 --> 00:52:42,960 did you ever count how many stories came 1235 00:52:51,079 --> 00:52:46,710 out after that I didn't Martin but there 1236 00:52:53,089 --> 00:52:51,089 is a there's a guy named Guillermo you 1237 00:52:56,270 --> 00:52:53,099 know the guy yes I believe I sent you 1238 00:52:59,900 --> 00:52:56,280 that link when that hat when I when that 1239 00:53:01,849 --> 00:52:59,910 came out at that time it was 121 or 1240 00:53:04,039 --> 00:53:01,859 something like that and he still has a 1241 00:53:06,710 --> 00:53:04,049 website I believe he built a web site 1242 00:53:09,049 --> 00:53:06,720 just dedicated to all the stuff that 1243 00:53:11,870 --> 00:53:09,059 came as a result of the New York Times 1244 00:53:15,859 --> 00:53:11,880 story everything he put up there you 1245 00:53:17,720 --> 00:53:15,869 know yeah and I I have that link 1246 00:53:19,880 --> 00:53:17,730 actually if people go to my website I 1247 00:53:22,009 --> 00:53:19,890 have that link on my website 1248 00:53:23,930 --> 00:53:22,019 which i think is still there and I think 1249 00:53:27,829 --> 00:53:23,940 he even still adds to it like we 1250 00:53:29,799 --> 00:53:27,839 recently had this funny funny thing that 1251 00:53:33,980 --> 00:53:29,809 happened on this television show called 1252 00:53:36,019 --> 00:53:33,990 NCIS Oh linked to Martin now he was the 1253 00:53:37,549 --> 00:53:36,029 one that alerted me about that and he's 1254 00:53:40,730 --> 00:53:37,559 gonna I'm sure he's gonna add that to 1255 00:53:42,980 --> 00:53:40,740 the list oh my god let's talk about that 1256 00:53:45,170 --> 00:53:42,990 yeah he's monitoring these things so 1257 00:53:48,259 --> 00:53:45,180 just if people want to see everything at 1258 00:53:50,509 --> 00:53:48,269 once and and they're all linked they can 1259 00:53:51,230 --> 00:53:50,519 they if you go to the UFO section of my 1260 00:53:53,059 --> 00:53:51,240 website 1261 00:53:55,190 --> 00:53:53,069 it's the link is there and them in the 1262 00:53:57,019 --> 00:53:55,200 media section so yeah it's pretty 1263 00:54:00,829 --> 00:53:57,029 amazing how much was generated as a 1264 00:54:02,839 --> 00:54:00,839 result of that story right and so let's 1265 00:54:06,079 --> 00:54:02,849 let's talk about you did send me the 1266 00:54:09,410 --> 00:54:06,089 link earlier and CEI yes what's it 1267 00:54:12,410 --> 00:54:09,420 called I think it's called NCIS I I sort 1268 00:54:14,660 --> 00:54:12,420 of I never watch TV so yeah same here of 1269 00:54:16,759 --> 00:54:14,670 that type you know I heard of this show 1270 00:54:18,920 --> 00:54:16,769 but I knew absolutely nothing about it 1271 00:54:21,319 --> 00:54:18,930 and he sent me the link to this little 1272 00:54:22,819 --> 00:54:21,329 preview it showed these guys walking 1273 00:54:24,589 --> 00:54:22,829 into this office and there's this woman 1274 00:54:27,140 --> 00:54:24,599 there and they said what is it in here 1275 00:54:29,539 --> 00:54:27,150 and she goes it's the advanced aerospace 1276 00:54:31,970 --> 00:54:29,549 threat identification program yes this 1277 00:54:34,309 --> 00:54:31,980 whole thing about here's what we do here 1278 00:54:36,380 --> 00:54:34,319 and then and then they show a video that 1279 00:54:39,109 --> 00:54:36,390 looks very similar to the one in the 1280 00:54:41,930 --> 00:54:39,119 time so the famous one yes 1281 00:54:43,069 --> 00:54:41,940 but they changed it just enough I think 1282 00:54:44,839 --> 00:54:43,079 it was the Nimitz one it was in 1283 00:54:46,130 --> 00:54:44,849 imitation of that one they changed it 1284 00:54:47,960 --> 00:54:46,140 just enough so that they couldn't be 1285 00:54:51,109 --> 00:54:47,970 accused of like using that one actually 1286 00:54:53,960 --> 00:54:51,119 oh it was so funny and the whole story 1287 00:54:55,910 --> 00:54:53,970 was about these Chinese operatives who 1288 00:54:58,130 --> 00:54:55,920 were trying to infiltrate the program 1289 00:55:00,140 --> 00:54:58,140 and then they it turns out the woman 1290 00:55:01,789 --> 00:55:00,150 running it was colluding with them to 1291 00:55:04,579 --> 00:55:01,799 try to get information and there was a 1292 00:55:07,579 --> 00:55:04,589 guy I was pretending he was an abductee 1293 00:55:10,880 --> 00:55:07,589 it was just this whole craziness but it 1294 00:55:13,339 --> 00:55:10,890 was just interesting that a tip was in 1295 00:55:15,079 --> 00:55:13,349 that show that it's it's so much part of 1296 00:55:16,999 --> 00:55:15,089 the culture now that it would be make it 1297 00:55:18,559 --> 00:55:17,009 you know it would be part of a show like 1298 00:55:20,960 --> 00:55:18,569 that I thought that was pretty amusing 1299 00:55:24,230 --> 00:55:20,970 but it was really a really bad the whole 1300 00:55:27,140 --> 00:55:24,240 thing it was fun to watch I think that 1301 00:55:28,999 --> 00:55:27,150 what the comment I made back to you when 1302 00:55:31,789 --> 00:55:29,009 I watched the clips is that it's a 1303 00:55:33,620 --> 00:55:31,799 little tiny bit of truth mixed in with a 1304 00:55:37,190 --> 00:55:33,630 whole bunch of 1305 00:55:39,110 --> 00:55:37,200 so-called entertainment or sort of 1306 00:55:41,720 --> 00:55:39,120 trying to make an x-files type of 1307 00:55:44,270 --> 00:55:41,730 situation out of just a little tiny bit 1308 00:55:46,850 --> 00:55:44,280 of truth yeah I would agree with you 1309 00:55:49,010 --> 00:55:46,860 because I think I mean they did describe 1310 00:55:49,700 --> 00:55:49,020 what the program does which is pretty 1311 00:55:52,910 --> 00:55:49,710 accurate 1312 00:55:55,190 --> 00:55:52,920 and the fact that the Chinese were the 1313 00:55:57,680 --> 00:55:55,200 ones trying to get the information is 1314 00:55:59,930 --> 00:55:57,690 kind of interesting because certainly 1315 00:56:01,730 --> 00:55:59,940 there are you know one of the reasons 1316 00:56:03,620 --> 00:56:01,740 for the secrecy in the program and for 1317 00:56:05,690 --> 00:56:03,630 protecting information and having things 1318 00:56:07,850 --> 00:56:05,700 classified is so that other countries 1319 00:56:11,330 --> 00:56:07,860 like China and Russia don't get their 1320 00:56:13,730 --> 00:56:11,340 hands on our data and so I found it sort 1321 00:56:16,190 --> 00:56:13,740 of intriguing that you know because we 1322 00:56:17,810 --> 00:56:16,200 know that the Chinese sometimes they're 1323 00:56:19,940 --> 00:56:17,820 spies that come around and try to 1324 00:56:21,650 --> 00:56:19,950 infiltrate labs and get information and 1325 00:56:23,300 --> 00:56:21,660 get it back to the government so that 1326 00:56:24,500 --> 00:56:23,310 that component of it was sort of 1327 00:56:25,880 --> 00:56:24,510 interesting that that's what they choose 1328 00:56:28,520 --> 00:56:25,890 to focus on I thought that was 1329 00:56:31,190 --> 00:56:28,530 interesting but the way but everything 1330 00:56:32,960 --> 00:56:31,200 about the plot and how it was the things 1331 00:56:37,130 --> 00:56:32,970 that happen in the show we're pretty 1332 00:56:40,430 --> 00:56:37,140 ludicrous it really were I didn't catch 1333 00:56:43,090 --> 00:56:40,440 the show itself just watch it I think 1334 00:56:45,260 --> 00:56:43,100 you can probably watch it somewhere yeah 1335 00:56:49,130 --> 00:56:45,270 it was just on about two weeks ago 1336 00:56:52,070 --> 00:56:49,140 mm-hmm I know you know when you and I 1337 00:56:54,820 --> 00:56:52,080 briefly spoke ahead of the show you said 1338 00:56:57,500 --> 00:56:54,830 that you're you haven't really like 1339 00:57:00,380 --> 00:56:57,510 glued yourself to the UFO topic lately 1340 00:57:06,620 --> 00:57:00,390 because you're writing a book and well 1341 00:57:08,810 --> 00:57:06,630 no I'd it's not a project I meant I'm 1342 00:57:11,720 --> 00:57:08,820 sorry you did say the project yes yeah 1343 00:57:15,430 --> 00:57:11,730 that's okay yeah but let's just before 1344 00:57:19,040 --> 00:57:15,440 we move on from this topic after that 1345 00:57:22,070 --> 00:57:19,050 after that article did come out were you 1346 00:57:23,750 --> 00:57:22,080 also sought for I know you said you 1347 00:57:24,770 --> 00:57:23,760 didn't you know at the time you said you 1348 00:57:28,070 --> 00:57:24,780 know you didn't want to come on the show 1349 00:57:31,640 --> 00:57:28,080 right away but were were people after 1350 00:57:34,760 --> 00:57:31,650 you all the time to talk to them yes 1351 00:57:38,870 --> 00:57:34,770 absolutely and at that point when the 1352 00:57:41,810 --> 00:57:38,880 for article first came out we had to run 1353 00:57:43,070 --> 00:57:41,820 every request we got through the public 1354 00:57:46,910 --> 00:57:43,080 relations department of the New York 1355 00:57:49,069 --> 00:57:46,920 Times as reporters on the story 1356 00:57:51,109 --> 00:57:49,079 for them something this sensitive it's 1357 00:57:53,299 --> 00:57:51,119 not like I could just go run around and 1358 00:57:56,059 --> 00:57:53,309 do every UFO podcast that I wanted to do 1359 00:57:59,180 --> 00:57:56,069 and they were we were trying to be very 1360 00:58:00,680 --> 00:57:59,190 careful about that and we had to get per 1361 00:58:03,770 --> 00:58:00,690 their permission for everything so 1362 00:58:07,520 --> 00:58:03,780 that's why we kind of focused on them 1363 00:58:09,470 --> 00:58:07,530 the major media and anyway it wasn't 1364 00:58:09,829 --> 00:58:09,480 completely up to me let's put it that 1365 00:58:11,720 --> 00:58:09,839 way 1366 00:58:14,359 --> 00:58:11,730 isn't that something so they're so 1367 00:58:16,760 --> 00:58:14,369 cautious upon an article like that that 1368 00:58:19,670 --> 00:58:16,770 they want to they want to follow up 1369 00:58:23,960 --> 00:58:19,680 afterwards to make sure that things 1370 00:58:25,460 --> 00:58:23,970 don't go astray or something yes I don't 1371 00:58:26,750 --> 00:58:25,470 quite yeah they don't they want to make 1372 00:58:31,309 --> 00:58:26,760 sure that they're not somehow 1373 00:58:32,900 --> 00:58:31,319 discredited and that I mean I don't know 1374 00:58:35,120 --> 00:58:32,910 exactly I just think that's how they do 1375 00:58:37,039 --> 00:58:35,130 it in general I mean that's there for 1376 00:58:39,380 --> 00:58:37,049 any story that gets a lot of attention I 1377 00:58:41,450 --> 00:58:39,390 think the media department or the public 1378 00:58:44,200 --> 00:58:41,460 relations department always handles any 1379 00:58:46,490 --> 00:58:44,210 requests for interviews by the writers 1380 00:58:48,589 --> 00:58:46,500 and it's just the way they do it at the 1381 00:58:51,049 --> 00:58:48,599 times so I don't know if it was just 1382 00:58:53,870 --> 00:58:51,059 because it was about UFOs but and there 1383 00:58:54,289 --> 00:58:53,880 were way more requests than I could 1384 00:58:55,910 --> 00:58:54,299 handle 1385 00:58:58,010 --> 00:58:55,920 anyway Helene didn't really want to do 1386 00:59:00,200 --> 00:58:58,020 them and Ralph did some but he was also 1387 00:59:01,670 --> 00:59:00,210 not as interested you know he's he 1388 00:59:03,589 --> 00:59:01,680 doesn't particularly like to do media 1389 00:59:05,270 --> 00:59:03,599 either and there was just so much that 1390 00:59:07,400 --> 00:59:05,280 there's only so much we could do at the 1391 00:59:09,079 --> 00:59:07,410 time let's put it that way I remember I 1392 00:59:13,160 --> 00:59:09,089 did have a conversation with Helene 1393 00:59:15,799 --> 00:59:13,170 through through email and you know I 1394 00:59:18,170 --> 00:59:15,809 just I just asked her you know basically 1395 00:59:20,180 --> 00:59:18,180 the same time I asked you at the time 1396 00:59:23,420 --> 00:59:20,190 I'm having no idea at all about this 1397 00:59:25,270 --> 00:59:23,430 what you're talking about with that it 1398 00:59:27,650 --> 00:59:25,280 had to go through the New York Times 1399 00:59:30,260 --> 00:59:27,660 Department before anyone could do any 1400 00:59:35,329 --> 00:59:30,270 interview but she right away said oh 1401 00:59:36,950 --> 00:59:35,339 contact my co-authors really want to be 1402 00:59:38,990 --> 00:59:36,960 the one out there and also she didn't 1403 00:59:42,500 --> 00:59:39,000 really consider herself as somebody that 1404 00:59:44,120 --> 00:59:42,510 knowledgeable about UFOs in general yeah 1405 00:59:46,250 --> 00:59:44,130 you know she was certainly knowledgeable 1406 00:59:48,049 --> 00:59:46,260 about will be covered in the story but 1407 00:59:50,720 --> 00:59:48,059 she didn't have the background the Ralph 1408 00:59:52,640 --> 00:59:50,730 and I had in the topic in general so 1409 00:59:54,859 --> 00:59:52,650 that was you know she just had to move 1410 00:59:57,770 --> 00:59:54,869 on to her next assignment basically sure 1411 00:59:59,809 --> 00:59:57,780 sure this was not like the big focus of 1412 01:00:00,329 --> 00:59:59,819 her life for her like it like it was for 1413 01:00:09,900 --> 01:00:00,339 me 1414 01:00:12,509 --> 01:00:09,910 ridicule about this topic do you know if 1415 01:00:15,509 --> 01:00:12,519 the Pew New York Times itself had any 1416 01:00:19,109 --> 01:00:15,519 flack any feedback from you know 1417 01:00:21,749 --> 01:00:19,119 longtime subscribers to their paper etc 1418 01:00:24,200 --> 01:00:21,759 oh I don't think anything negative 1419 01:00:26,609 --> 01:00:24,210 Martin I mean the response was so 1420 01:00:28,499 --> 01:00:26,619 astronomical the numbers of hits that it 1421 01:00:30,630 --> 01:00:28,509 got it was the number one story four 1422 01:00:32,789 --> 01:00:30,640 days following the release of the story 1423 01:00:35,690 --> 01:00:32,799 I mean it was oh yeah it was the biggest 1424 01:00:38,609 --> 01:00:35,700 story in that paper for quite a few days 1425 01:00:41,219 --> 01:00:38,619 the videos were the most watched videos 1426 01:00:42,749 --> 01:00:41,229 for I don't know how long five days a 1427 01:00:47,160 --> 01:00:42,759 week or something like that I mean it 1428 01:00:49,259 --> 01:00:47,170 was you know it just was so I I don't 1429 01:00:51,239 --> 01:00:49,269 know I mean maybe if I read every single 1430 01:00:52,349 --> 01:00:51,249 comment on every board someplace there 1431 01:00:54,630 --> 01:00:52,359 were people that thought it was 1432 01:00:56,400 --> 01:00:54,640 ridiculous probably but I think that the 1433 01:00:58,440 --> 01:00:56,410 response was generally overwhelmingly 1434 01:01:01,469 --> 01:00:58,450 positive and people were fascinated and 1435 01:01:03,930 --> 01:01:01,479 they wanted more yeah absolutely 1436 01:01:06,329 --> 01:01:03,940 you know as I mentioned I have heard I 1437 01:01:08,969 --> 01:01:06,339 heard from people that you know don't 1438 01:01:11,039 --> 01:01:08,979 even follow this topic were you know 1439 01:01:12,989 --> 01:01:11,049 even I remember when it first came out I 1440 01:01:16,109 --> 01:01:12,999 didn't even know about it and my son 1441 01:01:17,609 --> 01:01:16,119 told me about it yeah that's the person 1442 01:01:19,620 --> 01:01:17,619 those are the people we were hoping to 1443 01:01:21,209 --> 01:01:19,630 reach we don't need to reach the people 1444 01:01:22,769 --> 01:01:21,219 that in the UFO community who already 1445 01:01:24,150 --> 01:01:22,779 know this all or they don't know about 1446 01:01:26,219 --> 01:01:24,160 the agent program but you know what I'm 1447 01:01:28,440 --> 01:01:26,229 saying we need to my goal has always 1448 01:01:30,690 --> 01:01:28,450 been to take this issue into the 1449 01:01:33,299 --> 01:01:30,700 mainstream and into the answer to the 1450 01:01:34,979 --> 01:01:33,309 attention of policymakers and people who 1451 01:01:37,890 --> 01:01:34,989 are in a position to really change 1452 01:01:41,519 --> 01:01:37,900 things and that's what I think we were 1453 01:01:46,620 --> 01:01:41,529 able to accomplish here okay one of the 1454 01:01:49,319 --> 01:01:46,630 the questions I have is the you 1455 01:01:51,989 --> 01:01:49,329 mentioned that they had permission to 1456 01:01:53,880 --> 01:01:51,999 release the films and there's been so 1457 01:01:55,769 --> 01:01:53,890 much controversy about that did you have 1458 01:01:58,079 --> 01:01:55,779 you fallen in any of that controversy 1459 01:02:01,529 --> 01:01:58,089 whether they actually had permission to 1460 01:02:03,959 --> 01:02:01,539 let those films out there I don't jump 1461 01:02:06,420 --> 01:02:03,969 into it too much Martin I was kind of 1462 01:02:09,839 --> 01:02:06,430 aware that there were some questions 1463 01:02:11,819 --> 01:02:09,849 about it but I you know we stand by what 1464 01:02:14,350 --> 01:02:11,829 we wrote I have the documents that show 1465 01:02:16,440 --> 01:02:14,360 the validity you know I have what I need 1466 01:02:19,930 --> 01:02:16,450 and we needed at the times to know that 1467 01:02:21,550 --> 01:02:19,940 what we reported was true so yeah I 1468 01:02:24,790 --> 01:02:21,560 don't have the time to spend a lot of 1469 01:02:26,530 --> 01:02:24,800 time reading about people who are 1470 01:02:28,900 --> 01:02:26,540 questioning things that you know I know 1471 01:02:30,790 --> 01:02:28,910 are true so I don't know well I guess 1472 01:02:31,840 --> 01:02:30,800 I'll put it this way I will you know 1473 01:02:34,960 --> 01:02:31,850 part of it may have been that the 1474 01:02:37,510 --> 01:02:34,970 document wasn't released I think it made 1475 01:02:39,520 --> 01:02:37,520 it gotten released later but at the time 1476 01:02:41,920 --> 01:02:39,530 we we you know the times doesn't go 1477 01:02:43,330 --> 01:02:41,930 about releasing confidential documents 1478 01:02:45,570 --> 01:02:43,340 that are given to us by confidential 1479 01:02:47,890 --> 01:02:45,580 sources we just don't have that option 1480 01:02:49,540 --> 01:02:47,900 and certainly at that time we did not 1481 01:02:52,750 --> 01:02:49,550 have permission to release any of these 1482 01:02:54,370 --> 01:02:52,760 documents sure so back you know that can 1483 01:02:57,580 --> 01:02:54,380 create a problem because people want to 1484 01:03:00,550 --> 01:02:57,590 see legitimately so they want to see the 1485 01:03:02,740 --> 01:03:00,560 proof yeah whatever we're talking about 1486 01:03:04,500 --> 01:03:02,750 but I can assure the audience that the 1487 01:03:07,450 --> 01:03:04,510 New York Times is not going to print 1488 01:03:09,040 --> 01:03:07,460 something about a UFO video unless 1489 01:03:11,020 --> 01:03:09,050 they've seen the document that shows 1490 01:03:13,480 --> 01:03:11,030 that what we're saying is accurate yeah 1491 01:03:15,220 --> 01:03:13,490 and and they also trusted Lu Elizondo as 1492 01:03:18,310 --> 01:03:15,230 a source the combination of those two 1493 01:03:20,860 --> 01:03:18,320 things yeah that's basically I guess 1494 01:03:23,410 --> 01:03:20,870 what my question was was if if the New 1495 01:03:27,790 --> 01:03:23,420 York Times was satisfied with a document 1496 01:03:30,370 --> 01:03:27,800 then there shouldn't be I mean as as 1497 01:03:32,770 --> 01:03:30,380 stringent as they are there shouldn't be 1498 01:03:35,290 --> 01:03:32,780 any question on that really I would 1499 01:03:36,700 --> 01:03:35,300 think I mean they're just they want its 1500 01:03:38,770 --> 01:03:36,710 you know if people want to raise 1501 01:03:40,960 --> 01:03:38,780 questions I don't know and maybe they 1502 01:03:43,390 --> 01:03:40,970 have legitimate questions I don't know 1503 01:03:45,280 --> 01:03:43,400 yeah but I can tell you that we stand by 1504 01:03:48,940 --> 01:03:45,290 what we wrote in up in the in the times 1505 01:03:52,240 --> 01:03:48,950 yeah there's been a lot of talk over 1506 01:03:55,810 --> 01:03:52,250 these last few years that there's still 1507 01:03:58,990 --> 01:03:55,820 another film that may come out have you 1508 01:04:01,750 --> 01:03:59,000 heard anything about that at all I've 1509 01:04:04,180 --> 01:04:01,760 just heard from you know people 1510 01:04:06,610 --> 01:04:04,190 connected with to the stars and from Lou 1511 01:04:07,600 --> 01:04:06,620 that there a lot more videos exist 1512 01:04:09,640 --> 01:04:07,610 mm-hmm 1513 01:04:11,790 --> 01:04:09,650 but I also have been told that it's 1514 01:04:16,030 --> 01:04:11,800 extremely hard to get them released 1515 01:04:17,860 --> 01:04:16,040 especially now now that he's not 1516 01:04:21,820 --> 01:04:17,870 involved with the program anymore he's 1517 01:04:24,130 --> 01:04:21,830 outside the Pentagon so I have no doubt 1518 01:04:25,960 --> 01:04:24,140 that they exist I think a lot of them 1519 01:04:28,000 --> 01:04:25,970 are probably classified in fact I know 1520 01:04:30,430 --> 01:04:28,010 that they are but I 1521 01:04:31,660 --> 01:04:30,440 know that there are certainly people 1522 01:04:34,090 --> 01:04:31,670 connected with the eight chip program 1523 01:04:36,070 --> 01:04:34,100 such as the people at to the stars and 1524 01:04:39,670 --> 01:04:36,080 others who would like nothing more than 1525 01:04:41,580 --> 01:04:39,680 to get those videos release so but it's 1526 01:04:44,320 --> 01:04:41,590 extremely difficult and I don't think 1527 01:04:48,010 --> 01:04:44,330 it's gonna happen in the near future 1528 01:04:49,510 --> 01:04:48,020 from what I know but I don't know I 1529 01:04:50,530 --> 01:04:49,520 there may be people that know I'm sure 1530 01:04:54,190 --> 01:04:50,540 there are people that know more about 1531 01:04:56,320 --> 01:04:54,200 that than I do but that's my sense of it 1532 01:04:58,480 --> 01:04:56,330 is that you know I wouldn't hold your 1533 01:05:01,870 --> 01:04:58,490 breath on getting more videos to come 1534 01:05:05,110 --> 01:05:01,880 out right unfortunately I spoke with 1535 01:05:08,640 --> 01:05:05,120 Stan Freedman right after that happened 1536 01:05:11,590 --> 01:05:08,650 as a matter of fact that's my number one 1537 01:05:13,660 --> 01:05:11,600 video on my youtube channel is when I 1538 01:05:16,510 --> 01:05:13,670 spoke to Stan Freeman right after this 1539 01:05:19,510 --> 01:05:16,520 article came out uh-huh I think it was 1540 01:05:21,910 --> 01:05:19,520 the following week and that has over a 1541 01:05:25,810 --> 01:05:21,920 hundred thousand views on on YouTube but 1542 01:05:29,050 --> 01:05:25,820 anyway the one questioner that I thought 1543 01:05:32,080 --> 01:05:29,060 his response was was pretty interesting 1544 01:05:34,510 --> 01:05:32,090 he said why now why would the government 1545 01:05:37,840 --> 01:05:34,520 agree to let this information out now 1546 01:05:39,850 --> 01:05:37,850 what's your thoughts on that well I let 1547 01:05:41,770 --> 01:05:39,860 this information out does he mean the 1548 01:05:43,870 --> 01:05:41,780 whole story that Elizondo brought 1549 01:05:46,450 --> 01:05:43,880 forward or does he mean specifically the 1550 01:05:49,660 --> 01:05:46,460 videos or I think the whole story 1551 01:05:52,560 --> 01:05:49,670 basically yeah I mean you know I don't 1552 01:05:55,960 --> 01:05:52,570 think there was any kind of you know 1553 01:05:57,700 --> 01:05:55,970 deep hidden reason for why now cuz 1554 01:05:59,920 --> 01:05:57,710 people ask that question a lot the 1555 01:06:02,350 --> 01:05:59,930 reason it happened when it did is 1556 01:06:06,550 --> 01:06:02,360 because that's when Lou Elizondo decided 1557 01:06:08,650 --> 01:06:06,560 to resign and he resigned at that point 1558 01:06:10,690 --> 01:06:08,660 you know in October because he was fed 1559 01:06:12,100 --> 01:06:10,700 up as he wrote in his letter to general 1560 01:06:15,130 --> 01:06:12,110 mattis secretary general mattis 1561 01:06:18,010 --> 01:06:15,140 Secretary of Defense he just got to the 1562 01:06:19,450 --> 01:06:18,020 point of such exasperation with the lack 1563 01:06:21,520 --> 01:06:19,460 of resources that were being provided 1564 01:06:23,710 --> 01:06:21,530 the fact that this topic wasn't being 1565 01:06:25,990 --> 01:06:23,720 taken seriously that he felt that this 1566 01:06:29,010 --> 01:06:26,000 was a national security issue that 1567 01:06:31,270 --> 01:06:29,020 needed attention and he had just been 1568 01:06:34,030 --> 01:06:31,280 his frustration had built up and built 1569 01:06:37,390 --> 01:06:34,040 up he was planning to retire anyway but 1570 01:06:39,970 --> 01:06:37,400 he retired early so as far as I'm 1571 01:06:41,920 --> 01:06:39,980 concerned it was his walking out of that 1572 01:06:45,339 --> 01:06:41,930 job that precipitated this 1573 01:06:47,859 --> 01:06:45,349 Corie hmm and why he choose to do it at 1574 01:06:50,109 --> 01:06:47,869 that particular time as far as I 1575 01:06:52,510 --> 01:06:50,119 understand it he was planning to retire 1576 01:06:54,910 --> 01:06:52,520 anyway in maybe about six months later 1577 01:06:57,160 --> 01:06:54,920 he retired earlier because he was 1578 01:06:59,290 --> 01:06:57,170 interested in working with two stars and 1579 01:07:01,420 --> 01:06:59,300 it was sort of a an umbrella that for 1580 01:07:05,589 --> 01:07:01,430 him to move into and it was the timing 1581 01:07:07,690 --> 01:07:05,599 felt right to him to do it then so I'm 1582 01:07:09,670 --> 01:07:07,700 not sure there is any hidden deep hidden 1583 01:07:11,319 --> 01:07:09,680 reason treason you know that of anybody 1584 01:07:13,839 --> 01:07:11,329 else that was controlling the situation 1585 01:07:15,930 --> 01:07:13,849 other than this is just his choice to do 1586 01:07:19,299 --> 01:07:15,940 what he did at that particular moment 1587 01:07:22,599 --> 01:07:19,309 now I wonder if things were different 1588 01:07:25,540 --> 01:07:22,609 and there was no to the Stars Academy 1589 01:07:27,910 --> 01:07:25,550 out there what you know he may have 1590 01:07:29,380 --> 01:07:27,920 retired a little bit later tooth I mean 1591 01:07:31,420 --> 01:07:29,390 I would like to have the conversation 1592 01:07:33,970 --> 01:07:31,430 with him actually and ask him you know 1593 01:07:35,920 --> 01:07:33,980 what would he have done it would he 1594 01:07:38,230 --> 01:07:35,930 still wanted you know if he wanted to 1595 01:07:39,880 --> 01:07:38,240 get the word out there you know where 1596 01:07:43,240 --> 01:07:39,890 would he have gone if it he didn't have 1597 01:07:45,490 --> 01:07:43,250 that as you said umbrella to to switch 1598 01:07:47,440 --> 01:07:45,500 over to yeah I just don't know you could 1599 01:07:49,839 --> 01:07:47,450 ask him I mean he certainly knew the 1600 01:07:52,450 --> 01:07:49,849 individuals who invited me to that 1601 01:07:53,770 --> 01:07:52,460 meeting initially were people two of 1602 01:07:56,380 --> 01:07:53,780 them are people I'd known for a long 1603 01:07:59,500 --> 01:07:56,390 time and I suspect that even if to the 1604 01:08:01,059 --> 01:07:59,510 stars hadn't been set up those two 1605 01:08:03,789 --> 01:08:01,069 people were still involved with him and 1606 01:08:05,859 --> 01:08:03,799 with that and with the program hmm so 1607 01:08:07,569 --> 01:08:05,869 the same theoretically the same thing 1608 01:08:09,579 --> 01:08:07,579 could have happened even without to the 1609 01:08:13,089 --> 01:08:09,589 stars it was really just a matter of 1610 01:08:15,220 --> 01:08:13,099 what he what he chose to do if he 1611 01:08:18,360 --> 01:08:15,230 retired six months later maybe he would 1612 01:08:20,200 --> 01:08:18,370 have still even without to the stars 1613 01:08:22,209 --> 01:08:20,210 theoretically he probably could have 1614 01:08:24,459 --> 01:08:22,219 still brought the story out because of 1615 01:08:27,430 --> 01:08:24,469 other people the same way through people 1616 01:08:29,079 --> 01:08:27,440 that I knew that he knew but you know 1617 01:08:31,079 --> 01:08:29,089 who knows it's all speculation and you 1618 01:08:33,939 --> 01:08:31,089 could ask him about it 1619 01:08:36,820 --> 01:08:33,949 but yeah that's my sense of it 1620 01:08:40,059 --> 01:08:36,830 it was his retiring that precipitated 1621 01:08:43,900 --> 01:08:40,069 the whole thing I see yeah it's funny 1622 01:08:45,820 --> 01:08:43,910 when I met him in Cherry Hill we hung 1623 01:08:49,599 --> 01:08:45,830 out for I don't know maybe half-hour we 1624 01:08:50,979 --> 01:08:49,609 never once mentioned the word UFO he 1625 01:08:53,320 --> 01:08:50,989 probably probably really enjoyed that 1626 01:08:55,000 --> 01:08:53,330 yeah yeah where he was he's a collector 1627 01:08:56,530 --> 01:08:55,010 of 1628 01:08:59,770 --> 01:08:56,540 certain things and we talked all about 1629 01:09:02,410 --> 01:08:59,780 all about that stuff instead so real I 1630 01:09:04,450 --> 01:09:02,420 really a very likable guy and yeah 1631 01:09:05,950 --> 01:09:04,460 someone you know when he's talking to 1632 01:09:09,520 --> 01:09:05,960 you directly 1633 01:09:13,090 --> 01:09:09,530 he's very believable and and you just I 1634 01:09:16,960 --> 01:09:13,100 I never got any sense of any any type of 1635 01:09:20,440 --> 01:09:16,970 deception from Lou ever so far you know 1636 01:09:23,020 --> 01:09:20,450 I mean it's just not him so I'm really 1637 01:09:26,500 --> 01:09:23,030 grateful for what he's done and I 1638 01:09:27,040 --> 01:09:26,510 mentioned earlier we have there's a 1639 01:09:29,080 --> 01:09:27,050 graphic 1640 01:09:32,950 --> 01:09:29,090 I'll pull it up again for if someone's 1641 01:09:38,080 --> 01:09:32,960 just joining us that was on a third 1642 01:09:40,800 --> 01:09:38,090 grade classroom remote teaching class a 1643 01:09:44,110 --> 01:09:40,810 learning class from a third grader and 1644 01:09:46,810 --> 01:09:44,120 do UFOs you know basically about UFOs 1645 01:09:48,280 --> 01:09:46,820 and let's see do aliens exist I think 1646 01:09:50,170 --> 01:09:48,290 that's the title of it and it goes into 1647 01:09:52,140 --> 01:09:50,180 UFO sightings all the way back to 1648 01:09:54,940 --> 01:09:52,150 Kenneth Ardell Arnold and then it goes 1649 01:09:57,730 --> 01:09:54,950 that the US government has looked into 1650 01:10:01,780 --> 01:09:57,740 this and it brings up Lou Lewis Elizondo 1651 01:10:06,160 --> 01:10:01,790 and talks all about him about the UFO 1652 01:10:07,930 --> 01:10:06,170 sightings and very interesting that I'm 1653 01:10:09,880 --> 01:10:07,940 sorry that's another thing that probably 1654 01:10:12,070 --> 01:10:09,890 wouldn't have happened if your article 1655 01:10:13,870 --> 01:10:12,080 never came out maybe not I just wish 1656 01:10:19,900 --> 01:10:13,880 they wouldn't keep mixing it up with it 1657 01:10:21,430 --> 01:10:19,910 with aliens I know I know that's not a 1658 01:10:22,540 --> 01:10:21,440 good thing to tell if they're to deal 1659 01:10:24,820 --> 01:10:22,550 with when you're in third grade 1660 01:10:26,590 --> 01:10:24,830 yeah well it's funny it you know I 1661 01:10:29,200 --> 01:10:26,600 looked at that briefly I skimmed it over 1662 01:10:33,180 --> 01:10:29,210 and that's the title do aliens exist and 1663 01:10:38,010 --> 01:10:33,190 then it talks about you know UFOs and 1664 01:10:41,710 --> 01:10:38,020 basically the little girl told her mom 1665 01:10:43,030 --> 01:10:41,720 who's that my friend she said you know 1666 01:10:47,430 --> 01:10:43,040 there's a lot of evidence that these 1667 01:10:50,590 --> 01:10:47,440 things really are their mom that's good 1668 01:10:53,200 --> 01:10:50,600 there's a whole other thing yeah you 1669 01:10:55,720 --> 01:10:53,210 know yeah I just always try to keep the 1670 01:10:58,630 --> 01:10:55,730 two questions separate but it's hard to 1671 01:11:01,930 --> 01:10:58,640 do it in this culture yeah yeah I know 1672 01:11:04,450 --> 01:11:01,940 there's you know it it's one of the many 1673 01:11:07,390 --> 01:11:04,460 possibilities and and that's you know as 1674 01:11:08,439 --> 01:11:07,400 I do the show I still don't know I still 1675 01:11:11,860 --> 01:11:08,449 don't have any 1676 01:11:15,250 --> 01:11:11,870 real idea you know I think we we I 1677 01:11:18,010 --> 01:11:15,260 should say I think a lot of us may you 1678 01:11:20,620 --> 01:11:18,020 know think that's a possible very much 1679 01:11:22,570 --> 01:11:20,630 possibility just because of the 1680 01:11:24,850 --> 01:11:22,580 strangeness of it all 1681 01:11:27,400 --> 01:11:24,860 for instance you know the technologies 1682 01:11:29,500 --> 01:11:27,410 that are observed that are just so far 1683 01:11:33,160 --> 01:11:29,510 beyond anything we could imagine could 1684 01:11:36,010 --> 01:11:33,170 be created you know by us so that's that 1685 01:11:38,410 --> 01:11:36,020 I think that's you know understandable 1686 01:11:40,689 --> 01:11:38,420 are why a lot of people are thinking 1687 01:11:42,340 --> 01:11:40,699 that's what it must be absolutely oh 1688 01:11:45,010 --> 01:11:42,350 yeah it's just something about the word 1689 01:11:46,180 --> 01:11:45,020 I mean I would think of it as maybe some 1690 01:11:48,939 --> 01:11:46,190 kind of interdimensional or 1691 01:11:51,310 --> 01:11:48,949 extraterrestrial phenomenon that's way 1692 01:11:53,050 --> 01:11:51,320 more complicated than just thinking 1693 01:11:55,570 --> 01:11:53,060 about alien creatures coming here from 1694 01:11:57,400 --> 01:11:55,580 another planet you know I just think it 1695 01:11:59,320 --> 01:11:57,410 kind of oversimplifies it and the word 1696 01:12:01,600 --> 01:11:59,330 alien is just not one that I 1697 01:12:04,330 --> 01:12:01,610 particularly like but that's just me 1698 01:12:08,860 --> 01:12:04,340 yeah I know it's you know that's just me 1699 01:12:10,990 --> 01:12:08,870 yes well I do think you know the odds 1700 01:12:12,490 --> 01:12:11,000 are as I think I have a couple 1701 01:12:14,050 --> 01:12:12,500 scientists coming on that we're gonna 1702 01:12:15,820 --> 01:12:14,060 discuss this type of thing and one of 1703 01:12:18,520 --> 01:12:15,830 them is you know the possibility of 1704 01:12:21,910 --> 01:12:18,530 alien life out there which is you know 1705 01:12:24,400 --> 01:12:21,920 tremendous in my opinion it would it 1706 01:12:27,100 --> 01:12:24,410 would be such a shame if if there wasn't 1707 01:12:30,459 --> 01:12:27,110 intelligent life out there yeah yeah all 1708 01:12:33,010 --> 01:12:30,469 the all the the potential I think I'm 1709 01:12:38,229 --> 01:12:33,020 going to start when I start phone calls 1710 01:12:40,500 --> 01:12:38,239 early so just a few minutes early and so 1711 01:12:44,740 --> 01:12:40,510 that number if anyone wants to call in 1712 01:12:47,050 --> 01:12:44,750 is going to be up on your screen here in 1713 01:12:50,350 --> 01:12:47,060 just a second that number is eight five 1714 01:12:56,320 --> 01:12:50,360 five four seven two five four eight 1715 01:12:59,470 --> 01:12:56,330 three and just we want we want topics 1716 01:13:02,590 --> 01:12:59,480 related to what Leslie was involved in 1717 01:13:05,709 --> 01:13:02,600 for the call or we already have a caller 1718 01:13:11,530 --> 01:13:05,719 it looks like coming in just change 1719 01:13:14,200 --> 01:13:11,540 something here so that number is eight 1720 01:13:17,290 --> 01:13:14,210 five five four seven two five four eight 1721 01:13:25,750 --> 01:13:23,650 we go okay and so we have Steve calling 1722 01:13:33,760 --> 01:13:25,760 in from Las Vegas I'm going to bring him 1723 01:13:34,920 --> 01:13:33,770 on right now hi Leslie hi Steve hi how 1724 01:13:37,840 --> 01:13:34,930 you doing Steve 1725 01:13:40,420 --> 01:13:37,850 great I'm wondering the colors that I 1726 01:13:43,930 --> 01:13:40,430 asked Martin please get Leslie please 1727 01:13:47,800 --> 01:13:43,940 get lithic you know as a guest thank you 1728 01:13:49,300 --> 01:13:47,810 for that I'm glad to be on and speaking 1729 01:13:53,110 --> 01:13:49,310 to you I've been following your work for 1730 01:13:57,460 --> 01:13:53,120 many years your insight on the Kecksburg 1731 01:13:59,260 --> 01:13:57,470 case Chicago Airport case and I was able 1732 01:14:02,440 --> 01:13:59,270 to hear one of your lectures you did 1733 01:14:04,150 --> 01:14:02,450 some years ago on UFOs and media I have 1734 01:14:08,590 --> 01:14:04,160 so many lists of questions but I broke 1735 01:14:11,130 --> 01:14:08,600 him down to two question doing research 1736 01:14:14,500 --> 01:14:11,140 on your opposing they need to know and 1737 01:14:18,400 --> 01:14:14,510 I'm looking at who in the intelligence 1738 01:14:20,710 --> 01:14:18,410 community military or prior that are in 1739 01:14:23,890 --> 01:14:20,720 the know that will read into the program 1740 01:14:26,200 --> 01:14:23,900 deep with high clearance and one name 1741 01:14:30,010 --> 01:14:26,210 that popped up and I asked Richard Dolan 1742 01:14:32,800 --> 01:14:30,020 and he assured me absolutely the name 1743 01:14:36,430 --> 01:14:32,810 one name that came up with dr. he'll put 1744 01:14:39,070 --> 01:14:36,440 off and wondering is there anybody you 1745 01:14:41,380 --> 01:14:39,080 think that keeping holding back the 1746 01:14:44,850 --> 01:14:41,390 secrets that was read deep into the 1747 01:14:49,120 --> 01:14:44,860 program but he's holding back so much 1748 01:14:50,830 --> 01:14:49,130 okay so so I'm I'm not I want to be 1749 01:14:53,170 --> 01:14:50,840 Martin 100% clear that I understand the 1750 01:14:55,540 --> 01:14:53,180 question I understand the Steve asked 1751 01:14:57,730 --> 01:14:55,550 about how put off and I can comment on 1752 01:14:58,840 --> 01:14:57,740 that because I know how but then what 1753 01:15:01,210 --> 01:14:58,850 was the question that followed that 1754 01:15:03,280 --> 01:15:01,220 about whether somebody is holding back 1755 01:15:08,140 --> 01:15:03,290 information is that what you're asking 1756 01:15:11,740 --> 01:15:08,150 Steve yeah I mean there are plenty of 1757 01:15:15,070 --> 01:15:11,750 people who know a lot and because they 1758 01:15:16,480 --> 01:15:15,080 have high clearances they have access to 1759 01:15:18,070 --> 01:15:16,490 classified information and they 1760 01:15:19,840 --> 01:15:18,080 absolutely cannot release that 1761 01:15:22,300 --> 01:15:19,850 information whether they want to or not 1762 01:15:24,010 --> 01:15:22,310 and you know they don't have a choice 1763 01:15:27,010 --> 01:15:24,020 about it because they're their 1764 01:15:29,350 --> 01:15:27,020 clearances provide that restriction for 1765 01:15:31,000 --> 01:15:29,360 them how put off is an example of 1766 01:15:33,250 --> 01:15:31,010 somebody he has tremendous in 1767 01:15:35,110 --> 01:15:33,260 integrity he's absolutely brilliant he's 1768 01:15:37,090 --> 01:15:35,120 been you know he's a scientist who has 1769 01:15:40,120 --> 01:15:37,100 been studying this topic for years has 1770 01:15:43,240 --> 01:15:40,130 published papers on it and he will make 1771 01:15:45,970 --> 01:15:43,250 public whatever he can but there's 1772 01:15:48,850 --> 01:15:45,980 plenty that he knows that he can't make 1773 01:15:52,000 --> 01:15:48,860 public and you know you can't hold that 1774 01:15:53,710 --> 01:15:52,010 against people who have high-level 1775 01:15:56,380 --> 01:15:53,720 clearances and get access to information 1776 01:15:57,880 --> 01:15:56,390 and they have to keep secrets because 1777 01:15:58,480 --> 01:15:57,890 they're classified it's just the way it 1778 01:16:01,500 --> 01:15:58,490 works 1779 01:16:04,390 --> 01:16:01,510 same with Elizondo he never released any 1780 01:16:06,430 --> 01:16:04,400 information that was classified was all 1781 01:16:09,610 --> 01:16:06,440 in every time I spoke to him he was very 1782 01:16:11,500 --> 01:16:09,620 careful to make sure that I knew and 1783 01:16:13,720 --> 01:16:11,510 that we reporters knew that he was not 1784 01:16:16,440 --> 01:16:13,730 revealing anything that was classified 1785 01:16:19,090 --> 01:16:16,450 and he knew plenty of things that were 1786 01:16:21,100 --> 01:16:19,100 again I don't hold that against him so 1787 01:16:25,060 --> 01:16:21,110 you know there are reasons that people 1788 01:16:27,520 --> 01:16:25,070 have to protect information and there 1789 01:16:29,890 --> 01:16:27,530 are reasons that information is kept 1790 01:16:31,300 --> 01:16:29,900 private or is kept secret and certainly 1791 01:16:33,880 --> 01:16:31,310 within a place like the Department of 1792 01:16:35,860 --> 01:16:33,890 Defense where their job is to protect 1793 01:16:38,170 --> 01:16:35,870 the American people they don't want to 1794 01:16:40,030 --> 01:16:38,180 release sensitive information that our 1795 01:16:43,270 --> 01:16:40,040 adversaries might be able to get ahold 1796 01:16:44,890 --> 01:16:43,280 of and and kind of move ahead of us so 1797 01:16:46,960 --> 01:16:44,900 there is an issue with protecting 1798 01:16:48,790 --> 01:16:46,970 sensitive information that they feel is 1799 01:16:50,650 --> 01:16:48,800 in the best interest of the public too 1800 01:16:53,830 --> 01:16:50,660 so I don't know if that addresses your 1801 01:16:57,210 --> 01:16:53,840 question Steve but um maybe it does I 1802 01:17:02,080 --> 01:16:57,220 don't know oh wait and second question 1803 01:17:04,960 --> 01:17:02,090 if disclosure were to happen all these 1804 01:17:09,190 --> 01:17:04,970 visitors made themself present whether a 1805 01:17:12,940 --> 01:17:09,200 mass sighting or maybe a a word event 1806 01:17:14,290 --> 01:17:12,950 what to happen what that make us these 1807 01:17:16,870 --> 01:17:14,300 know what make the public oh and to a 1808 01:17:20,850 --> 01:17:16,880 higher consciousness to know that we are 1809 01:17:24,670 --> 01:17:23,230 sorry for the background phone here I 1810 01:17:26,530 --> 01:17:24,680 you know it's a really really 1811 01:17:28,540 --> 01:17:26,540 interesting question to think about I 1812 01:17:30,640 --> 01:17:28,550 mean I think it would have a lot to do 1813 01:17:33,730 --> 01:17:30,650 with the nature of the phenomenon that 1814 01:17:36,240 --> 01:17:33,740 did show itself to us I'm sorry about 1815 01:17:40,450 --> 01:17:36,250 that phone I should have unplugged it 1816 01:17:43,540 --> 01:17:40,460 it's um you know it it depends it's just 1817 01:17:44,890 --> 01:17:43,550 so hard to predict I think because if 1818 01:17:46,330 --> 01:17:44,900 some if the phenomena 1819 01:17:47,979 --> 01:17:46,340 itself known you know what would the 1820 01:17:50,050 --> 01:17:47,989 nature of that phenomenon be would it be 1821 01:17:53,680 --> 01:17:50,060 menacing would it be scary would it be 1822 01:17:57,040 --> 01:17:53,690 benign would it be spiritual or would it 1823 01:18:00,100 --> 01:17:57,050 be hostile it's just so hard to know it 1824 01:18:02,050 --> 01:18:00,110 certainly would change consciousness 1825 01:18:04,570 --> 01:18:02,060 though it would change our perception of 1826 01:18:06,520 --> 01:18:04,580 who we are and have a dramatic effect 1827 01:18:09,490 --> 01:18:06,530 and one can only hope that if it happens 1828 01:18:11,110 --> 01:18:09,500 it would be a positive effect but we 1829 01:18:13,209 --> 01:18:11,120 don't really understand the nature of 1830 01:18:14,740 --> 01:18:13,219 this phenomenon and it might have many 1831 01:18:18,220 --> 01:18:14,750 different components and there might be 1832 01:18:19,840 --> 01:18:18,230 many different elements to it so it you 1833 01:18:22,270 --> 01:18:19,850 know we don't know what might happen and 1834 01:18:23,680 --> 01:18:22,280 in terms of disclosure I mean I I have a 1835 01:18:26,610 --> 01:18:23,690 little bit of trouble with that word 1836 01:18:31,209 --> 01:18:26,620 disclosure but if you're talking about 1837 01:18:33,280 --> 01:18:31,219 an official government saying that they 1838 01:18:35,200 --> 01:18:33,290 have knowledge about this I mean 1839 01:18:38,860 --> 01:18:35,210 certainly that has happened already in 1840 01:18:40,209 --> 01:18:38,870 my opinion at a certain level where 1841 01:18:42,189 --> 01:18:40,219 governments have really and certainly 1842 01:18:43,810 --> 01:18:42,199 the New York Times article was basically 1843 01:18:45,610 --> 01:18:43,820 saying you know the Pentagon's been 1844 01:18:48,520 --> 01:18:45,620 studying this therefore obviously these 1845 01:18:52,510 --> 01:18:48,530 things exist or they wouldn't be wasting 1846 01:18:54,610 --> 01:18:52,520 their time for 10 years so and that 1847 01:18:56,410 --> 01:18:54,620 doesn't seem to have upset anybody so I 1848 01:18:59,470 --> 01:18:56,420 don't think official acknowledgement of 1849 01:19:03,910 --> 01:18:59,480 this phenomenon is a problem for human 1850 01:19:05,860 --> 01:19:03,920 beings because we I think the reality is 1851 01:19:06,610 --> 01:19:05,870 we don't really understand what it is 1852 01:19:11,530 --> 01:19:06,620 yet 1853 01:19:12,939 --> 01:19:11,540 and so you know it could be scary or it 1854 01:19:16,390 --> 01:19:12,949 could have a bigger effect if we did 1855 01:19:18,399 --> 01:19:16,400 understand more about it and and as you 1856 01:19:20,709 --> 01:19:18,409 said if it or if it revealed itself to 1857 01:19:22,709 --> 01:19:20,719 us in a way that was unmistakable and at 1858 01:19:25,360 --> 01:19:22,719 that point we just would have to assess 1859 01:19:26,919 --> 01:19:25,370 what it's what it was and what its 1860 01:19:29,110 --> 01:19:26,929 intention was and that would be the 1861 01:19:31,840 --> 01:19:29,120 determining factor for how we might 1862 01:19:34,120 --> 01:19:31,850 respond so it's a really interesting 1863 01:19:35,500 --> 01:19:34,130 question to think about I don't think I 1864 01:19:39,010 --> 01:19:35,510 mean I don't think I can really answer 1865 01:19:42,040 --> 01:19:39,020 it but you know it's a very interesting 1866 01:19:47,260 --> 01:19:42,050 thing to think about all right hey Steve 1867 01:19:47,800 --> 01:19:47,270 thanks for the call thanks Steve all 1868 01:19:52,510 --> 01:19:47,810 right 1869 01:19:54,370 --> 01:19:52,520 just before we have a Ken from New York 1870 01:19:57,160 --> 01:19:54,380 but before I take them in I just have 1871 01:19:58,359 --> 01:19:57,170 thought you know wouldn't I love to get 1872 01:20:00,729 --> 01:19:58,369 inside of you Oh 1873 01:20:02,139 --> 01:20:00,739 and rose head and know what he no host 1874 01:20:03,609 --> 01:20:02,149 you know you're talking about other 1875 01:20:10,169 --> 01:20:03,619 classified things that he knows that 1876 01:20:15,399 --> 01:20:12,850 these people these are patriots and 1877 01:20:17,889 --> 01:20:15,409 they're really careful about what they 1878 01:20:19,929 --> 01:20:17,899 say I mean the same is true for these 1879 01:20:21,879 --> 01:20:19,939 people you know and the you know when 1880 01:20:24,069 --> 01:20:21,889 people fault them for being part of some 1881 01:20:25,540 --> 01:20:24,079 kind of cover-up or something I don't 1882 01:20:28,060 --> 01:20:25,550 think of it that way it's their it's 1883 01:20:29,589 --> 01:20:28,070 their duty to protect information that 1884 01:20:31,659 --> 01:20:29,599 they're sworn to protect and the only 1885 01:20:34,029 --> 01:20:31,669 reason they even have access to it is 1886 01:20:36,639 --> 01:20:34,039 because of that commitment they have 1887 01:20:38,139 --> 01:20:36,649 because they have to honor their 1888 01:20:40,149 --> 01:20:38,149 clearances and their clearances would be 1889 01:20:41,859 --> 01:20:40,159 removed from them if they were to reveal 1890 01:20:44,259 --> 01:20:41,869 information or they could even jailed 1891 01:20:46,889 --> 01:20:44,269 what do you expect you know just be 1892 01:20:49,270 --> 01:20:46,899 grateful that good people know things 1893 01:20:51,580 --> 01:20:49,280 even if they can't tell us about them 1894 01:20:53,139 --> 01:20:51,590 yeah well I got to tell you what the 1895 01:20:56,139 --> 01:20:53,149 lines are lit up like a Christmas tree 1896 01:20:58,389 --> 01:20:56,149 we have like five calls waiting so we'll 1897 01:21:04,000 --> 01:20:58,399 start out with can you're on the air 1898 01:21:11,139 --> 01:21:04,010 from New York how are you I can't a 1899 01:21:13,029 --> 01:21:11,149 fellow New Yorker here yeah I'm up in 1900 01:21:16,810 --> 01:21:13,039 Washington Heights and me in Manhattan 1901 01:21:18,790 --> 01:21:16,820 hanging into in my apartment good good 1902 01:21:20,139 --> 01:21:18,800 good getting a little bit warmer 1903 01:21:23,049 --> 01:21:20,149 hopefully we will have spring pretty 1904 01:21:25,060 --> 01:21:23,059 soon I got about three or four questions 1905 01:21:26,379 --> 01:21:25,070 for you Leslie but before I give you 1906 01:21:28,299 --> 01:21:26,389 these questions I want to first thank 1907 01:21:29,619 --> 01:21:28,309 you Leslie for all the hard work you've 1908 01:21:32,560 --> 01:21:29,629 done with this New York Times article 1909 01:21:35,169 --> 01:21:32,570 I'm telling you that was the article I 1910 01:21:37,540 --> 01:21:35,179 think what of course is to full 1911 01:21:39,549 --> 01:21:37,550 disclosure that was probably the best 1912 01:21:41,770 --> 01:21:39,559 thing that we've had happened so far in 1913 01:21:43,719 --> 01:21:41,780 the UFO community and I just want to say 1914 01:21:45,459 --> 01:21:43,729 when I saw that I broke up that Sunday 1915 01:21:49,929 --> 01:21:45,469 morning okay I could just want to say 1916 01:21:52,330 --> 01:21:49,939 how I woke up and I I just I don't know 1917 01:21:54,790 --> 01:21:52,340 how I found it I did a search on UFOs or 1918 01:21:57,429 --> 01:21:54,800 somebody linked it to me and I saw this 1919 01:22:01,889 --> 01:21:57,439 article and I'm seeing this picture in 1920 01:22:06,669 --> 01:22:01,899 front of New York Times and I'm like oh 1921 01:22:08,199 --> 01:22:06,679 bleep all right I'm right and I'm still 1922 01:22:10,920 --> 01:22:08,209 struggling is I'm telling you this right 1923 01:22:12,840 --> 01:22:10,930 now for most of us this was it 1924 01:22:16,230 --> 01:22:12,850 I saw the Flying Saucer on the front of 1925 01:22:20,070 --> 01:22:16,240 the times a big picture we got video 1926 01:22:21,660 --> 01:22:20,080 we've got DoD Pentagon words like that 1927 01:22:24,750 --> 01:22:21,670 that you'd never see on the front of the 1928 01:22:27,450 --> 01:22:24,760 times and it's on CNN you gotta lose 1929 01:22:29,520 --> 01:22:27,460 some lawns on CN everywhere but we all 1930 01:22:30,630 --> 01:22:29,530 thought this was it Leslie I think you 1931 01:22:31,980 --> 01:22:30,640 might've must have thought of it 1932 01:22:33,660 --> 01:22:31,990 everyone in the you ever thought this 1933 01:22:35,820 --> 01:22:33,670 was it this was the big one 1934 01:22:38,580 --> 01:22:35,830 everything is coming out now there's no 1935 01:22:40,410 --> 01:22:38,590 stopping it and it sort of stopped that 1936 01:22:42,360 --> 01:22:40,420 I mean it was the best thing we've had 1937 01:22:45,090 --> 01:22:42,370 so far but I'm just telling you thank 1938 01:22:47,310 --> 01:22:45,100 you so much for that I appreciate that 1939 01:22:49,440 --> 01:22:47,320 it makes all the work worth it when I 1940 01:22:51,690 --> 01:22:49,450 hear from people like you I love hearing 1941 01:22:53,370 --> 01:22:51,700 the stories like that it was a really 1942 01:22:54,150 --> 01:22:53,380 big moment when it came out I'll never 1943 01:22:55,860 --> 01:22:54,160 forget it 1944 01:22:58,170 --> 01:22:55,870 can I have to ask you this if you would 1945 01:22:59,430 --> 01:22:58,180 we have all the lines are full and I 1946 01:23:01,800 --> 01:22:59,440 don't know if people more people are 1947 01:23:03,450 --> 01:23:01,810 trying to and that's like six lines so 1948 01:23:04,770 --> 01:23:03,460 if you could will that down to two 1949 01:23:07,080 --> 01:23:04,780 questions I do too 1950 01:23:10,770 --> 01:23:07,090 the two most urgent questions that you 1951 01:23:12,780 --> 01:23:10,780 have please all right the first I just 1952 01:23:14,820 --> 01:23:12,790 want to say first did it like elite two 1953 01:23:17,250 --> 01:23:14,830 steps to this process first we have to 1954 01:23:19,440 --> 01:23:17,260 figure out that these objects are real 1955 01:23:21,780 --> 01:23:19,450 in these cases not every UFO is real 1956 01:23:25,590 --> 01:23:21,790 most of them are but for the ones that 1957 01:23:28,050 --> 01:23:25,600 have credible verification like we are 1958 01:23:30,210 --> 01:23:28,060 radar and video and testimony from like 1959 01:23:31,950 --> 01:23:30,220 in this nimac phase you know these they 1960 01:23:34,020 --> 01:23:31,960 can't tell us it's just swamp gas or 1961 01:23:36,960 --> 01:23:34,030 blue and a birds we've whittled it down 1962 01:23:38,910 --> 01:23:36,970 that number one these are real objects 1963 01:23:41,070 --> 01:23:38,920 okay so they can't go back on that so 1964 01:23:42,690 --> 01:23:41,080 then the next step is to find out where 1965 01:23:45,330 --> 01:23:42,700 they come from is it from earthly 1966 01:23:47,670 --> 01:23:45,340 sources and I've got the quote here from 1967 01:23:51,060 --> 01:23:47,680 the recent Tim McClellan Popular 1968 01:23:54,120 --> 01:23:51,070 Mechanics arm article that says popular 1969 01:23:55,680 --> 01:23:54,130 sources learned October 2019 stars with 1970 01:23:57,840 --> 01:23:55,690 the Senate Select Committee on 1971 01:23:59,970 --> 01:23:57,850 Intelligence and Senate Armed Service 1972 01:24:03,510 --> 01:23:59,980 Committee or briefed and currently you 1973 01:24:04,710 --> 01:24:03,520 IP issues and they said insiders said in 1974 01:24:06,540 --> 01:24:04,720 a closed-door meeting setting 1975 01:24:09,360 --> 01:24:06,550 intelligent Brigadier General Richard 1976 01:24:12,360 --> 01:24:09,370 staff director of DoD special access 1977 01:24:13,770 --> 01:24:12,370 program testified mysterious object 1978 01:24:16,620 --> 01:24:13,780 being encountered by the military were 1979 01:24:19,830 --> 01:24:16,630 not related to us technology so the 1980 01:24:21,660 --> 01:24:19,840 Pentagon is saying we didn't build him 1981 01:24:23,100 --> 01:24:21,670 rush it and build him and it seemed 1982 01:24:24,840 --> 01:24:23,110 pretty implausible than most of the 1983 01:24:27,120 --> 01:24:24,850 country would have gotten that 1984 01:24:28,830 --> 01:24:27,130 so long without our intelligence knowing 1985 01:24:31,890 --> 01:24:28,840 anything about it which leaves you with 1986 01:24:33,840 --> 01:24:31,900 only one other you know possibility so 1987 01:24:35,370 --> 01:24:33,850 to me that's where we're at and that's 1988 01:24:38,040 --> 01:24:35,380 how we have to point out this stuff to 1989 01:24:40,620 --> 01:24:38,050 people one we verify in these cases 1990 01:24:42,450 --> 01:24:40,630 these are real unidentified objects so 1991 01:24:47,670 --> 01:24:42,460 now we have to eliminate are they from 1992 01:24:49,710 --> 01:24:47,680 Earth oh that's right and I think you've 1993 01:24:52,260 --> 01:24:49,720 made a very good assessment of it and 1994 01:24:54,060 --> 01:24:52,270 it's very difficult to say where they're 1995 01:24:56,400 --> 01:24:54,070 from you know the big questions where 1996 01:24:58,230 --> 01:24:56,410 they're from who is who is behind them 1997 01:25:02,070 --> 01:24:58,240 who's driving them or who's manipulating 1998 01:25:03,540 --> 01:25:02,080 them and why are they here and we don't 1999 01:25:05,400 --> 01:25:03,550 know the answers to those questions but 2000 01:25:07,230 --> 01:25:05,410 yeah that's what everybody wants to know 2001 01:25:09,720 --> 01:25:07,240 and I think you know the a chip program 2002 01:25:12,090 --> 01:25:09,730 what they were doing was gathering as 2003 01:25:13,920 --> 01:25:12,100 much data as they possibly could on the 2004 01:25:15,510 --> 01:25:13,930 objects and you know when I talk to 2005 01:25:16,830 --> 01:25:15,520 Elizondo he said they didn't really 2006 01:25:18,870 --> 01:25:16,840 expect to find answers to those 2007 01:25:21,510 --> 01:25:18,880 questions what they wanted to do was 2008 01:25:24,440 --> 01:25:21,520 find out as much as they possibly could 2009 01:25:27,270 --> 01:25:24,450 about how the objects did what they do 2010 01:25:29,400 --> 01:25:27,280 so how they could explain the way they 2011 01:25:31,410 --> 01:25:29,410 behaved and there they were interested 2012 01:25:33,360 --> 01:25:31,420 in the technology and how it worked and 2013 01:25:34,560 --> 01:25:33,370 they learned a great deal about that but 2014 01:25:37,290 --> 01:25:34,570 I think the questions that you're 2015 01:25:39,270 --> 01:25:37,300 raising are the key questions I don't 2016 01:25:41,880 --> 01:25:39,280 think we have answers to them yet and I 2017 01:25:44,790 --> 01:25:41,890 hope we get them and next quick one 2018 01:25:47,490 --> 01:25:44,800 please Ken yeah that's what I just 2019 01:25:49,230 --> 01:25:47,500 wanted to reiterate that article points 2020 01:25:50,790 --> 01:25:49,240 out that they have people were getting 2021 01:25:55,230 --> 01:25:50,800 statements from people behind the scenes 2022 01:25:57,300 --> 01:25:55,240 saying we did not ours it was a really 2023 01:25:58,890 --> 01:25:57,310 important statement and it's incredible 2024 01:26:00,180 --> 01:25:58,900 when you think back you know 5 10 years 2025 01:26:02,160 --> 01:26:00,190 ago you never would have expected 2026 01:26:05,280 --> 01:26:02,170 statements like that so we're making 2027 01:26:08,310 --> 01:26:05,290 progress yeah that's a brigadier general 2028 01:26:10,050 --> 01:26:08,320 so now we've got the two steps towards 2029 01:26:11,310 --> 01:26:10,060 with the real we have verification that 2030 01:26:13,440 --> 01:26:11,320 these are real object and we got 2031 01:26:15,270 --> 01:26:13,450 verification from high-ranking people 2032 01:26:18,360 --> 01:26:15,280 saying it's not from these any earthly 2033 01:26:25,050 --> 01:26:18,370 sources including Luis Alonso so we just 2034 01:26:27,030 --> 01:26:25,060 got to you know well you know some 2035 01:26:30,030 --> 01:26:27,040 people say well maybe it is some secret 2036 01:26:32,640 --> 01:26:30,040 technology or you know and what is it I 2037 01:26:35,910 --> 01:26:32,650 mean it's even if it's not from here we 2038 01:26:38,030 --> 01:26:35,920 don't know what it is yeah I'm sorry 2039 01:26:40,100 --> 01:26:38,040 crap and other planet 2040 01:26:41,210 --> 01:26:40,110 dimentional is it who knows you know 2041 01:26:44,090 --> 01:26:41,220 there's still so many unanswered 2042 01:26:45,740 --> 01:26:44,100 questions and we have a lot of people 2043 01:26:47,390 --> 01:26:45,750 waiting for I'm gonna have to move on 2044 01:26:51,920 --> 01:26:47,400 but thank you so much for your call I 2045 01:26:54,680 --> 01:26:51,930 really appreciate it thank you thank you 2046 01:26:57,440 --> 01:26:54,690 Ken thank you good night all right next 2047 01:26:59,800 --> 01:26:57,450 we have John John's calling from 2048 01:27:03,320 --> 01:26:59,810 California welcome to the show John 2049 01:27:06,770 --> 01:27:03,330 Thank You Martin hi Leslie how are you 2050 01:27:11,270 --> 01:27:06,780 hi John good to hear from you same to 2051 01:27:13,700 --> 01:27:11,280 you I really like the fact that both you 2052 01:27:16,520 --> 01:27:13,710 and Martin bring such respectability to 2053 01:27:18,560 --> 01:27:16,530 this subject and your book was 2054 01:27:20,360 --> 01:27:18,570 phenomenal I read it years ago and it 2055 01:27:23,300 --> 01:27:20,370 was ahead of its time and the cases that 2056 01:27:27,950 --> 01:27:23,310 you studied and investigated and and 2057 01:27:32,000 --> 01:27:27,960 wrote about were probably the best cases 2058 01:27:33,590 --> 01:27:32,010 for somebody believing in in UFOs or you 2059 01:27:36,410 --> 01:27:33,600 ApS whatever you want to call them it 2060 01:27:39,560 --> 01:27:36,420 well my question is this Lou Elizondo 2061 01:27:43,310 --> 01:27:39,570 kind of admitted on Tucker Carlson's Fox 2062 01:27:48,290 --> 01:27:43,320 show that there has been many materials 2063 01:27:49,940 --> 01:27:48,300 or possibly craft retrievals how do you 2064 01:27:52,460 --> 01:27:49,950 feel about that and as has your 2065 01:27:55,640 --> 01:27:52,470 investigation led to I know a lot of 2066 01:27:57,140 --> 01:27:55,650 that stuff is classified but have you do 2067 01:28:00,170 --> 01:27:57,150 you have an opinion on that do you think 2068 01:28:03,490 --> 01:28:00,180 that we actually have recovered craft or 2069 01:28:06,440 --> 01:28:03,500 pieces of a craft do you have any 2070 01:28:08,360 --> 01:28:06,450 investigations into that subject yeah I 2071 01:28:10,670 --> 01:28:08,370 mean you're right that it's very 2072 01:28:12,680 --> 01:28:10,680 difficult to investigate because it's so 2073 01:28:15,080 --> 01:28:12,690 highly classified all of that stuff but 2074 01:28:18,320 --> 01:28:15,090 I have no doubt that certainly materials 2075 01:28:20,200 --> 01:28:18,330 do exist and there's you know I know 2076 01:28:23,390 --> 01:28:20,210 that from sources I know that from 2077 01:28:25,820 --> 01:28:23,400 Elizondo I know that from a book written 2078 01:28:28,370 --> 01:28:25,830 by Diana pasola called American cosmic 2079 01:28:31,010 --> 01:28:28,380 in which which I recommend to everybody 2080 01:28:33,170 --> 01:28:31,020 in which she talks about materials that 2081 01:28:34,490 --> 01:28:33,180 have been recovered and she was involved 2082 01:28:37,160 --> 01:28:34,500 directly with some of the people who 2083 01:28:38,720 --> 01:28:37,170 have those materials so I don't think 2084 01:28:40,910 --> 01:28:38,730 there's any doubt that they exist crash 2085 01:28:43,760 --> 01:28:40,920 retrievals I suspect there probably are 2086 01:28:45,980 --> 01:28:43,770 crash retrievals I mean and I'm sure 2087 01:28:50,030 --> 01:28:45,990 there are many people out there who who 2088 01:28:51,649 --> 01:28:50,040 feel they they know that there are so 2089 01:28:54,979 --> 01:28:51,659 you know 2090 01:28:57,439 --> 01:28:54,989 but I don't have proof at the level that 2091 01:28:58,729 --> 01:28:57,449 I would need in order to be able to like 2092 01:29:00,860 --> 01:28:58,739 do a story about that for the New York 2093 01:29:02,350 --> 01:29:00,870 Times and the read and you know I was 2094 01:29:04,760 --> 01:29:02,360 hoping after our first story that 2095 01:29:06,979 --> 01:29:04,770 writing about the materials would kind 2096 01:29:09,160 --> 01:29:06,989 of be the next door that would open that 2097 01:29:11,899 --> 01:29:09,170 was what all of us were hoping at my 2098 01:29:16,250 --> 01:29:11,909 stall and I but it just didn't happen 2099 01:29:19,220 --> 01:29:16,260 because we found out how classified it 2100 01:29:22,850 --> 01:29:19,230 all is we can't find out who has them 2101 01:29:24,590 --> 01:29:22,860 where they are what what are they there 2102 01:29:26,479 --> 01:29:24,600 are some that are in the possession of 2103 01:29:27,740 --> 01:29:26,489 scientists who are doing very good work 2104 01:29:29,240 --> 01:29:27,750 on them but these scientists 2105 01:29:31,459 --> 01:29:29,250 legitimately don't want to release 2106 01:29:33,470 --> 01:29:31,469 information on them until they finish 2107 01:29:35,720 --> 01:29:33,480 their examinations of the materials and 2108 01:29:37,220 --> 01:29:35,730 until they've published articles on them 2109 01:29:38,720 --> 01:29:37,230 in peer-reviewed journals which is what 2110 01:29:40,610 --> 01:29:38,730 scientists want to do they don't want to 2111 01:29:44,600 --> 01:29:40,620 tell you about an investigation when 2112 01:29:45,830 --> 01:29:44,610 it's only halfway there so so anyway I 2113 01:29:48,470 --> 01:29:45,840 think there's a lot of interesting work 2114 01:29:51,080 --> 01:29:48,480 being done I have no doubt that the 2115 01:29:53,899 --> 01:29:51,090 materials exist whether we will ever get 2116 01:29:55,610 --> 01:29:53,909 proof that any of them are indeed not 2117 01:29:57,830 --> 01:29:55,620 men you couldn't possibly have been 2118 01:29:59,959 --> 01:29:57,840 manufactured on earth I don't know I 2119 01:30:03,200 --> 01:29:59,969 hope we do and obviously that's what 2120 01:30:05,870 --> 01:30:03,210 everybody's looking for but they're also 2121 01:30:07,430 --> 01:30:05,880 there's a lot of classified walls that 2122 01:30:09,800 --> 01:30:07,440 you bump up against trying to find out 2123 01:30:11,860 --> 01:30:09,810 about them so that's that's that's what 2124 01:30:14,300 --> 01:30:11,870 yeah that's where it stands for me 2125 01:30:17,660 --> 01:30:14,310 that's interesting to hear you say that 2126 01:30:20,750 --> 01:30:17,670 I'm I always respect what you say 2127 01:30:22,790 --> 01:30:20,760 because of the hard work you do yeah I 2128 01:30:24,080 --> 01:30:22,800 mean a lot of sources have described 2129 01:30:26,180 --> 01:30:24,090 them and I think people have done so 2130 01:30:28,310 --> 01:30:26,190 publicly I mean I don't think it's that 2131 01:30:29,750 --> 01:30:28,320 big a secret anymore that there are 2132 01:30:32,540 --> 01:30:29,760 materials out there that are being 2133 01:30:35,000 --> 01:30:32,550 studied whether any have been proven to 2134 01:30:36,590 --> 01:30:35,010 be you know not manufactured on earth 2135 01:30:38,479 --> 01:30:36,600 that's another question but there are 2136 01:30:41,870 --> 01:30:38,489 certainly pieces of interest that are 2137 01:30:44,000 --> 01:30:41,880 under investigation and then my point 2138 01:30:45,260 --> 01:30:44,010 I'll just be real quick my last question 2139 01:30:47,209 --> 01:30:45,270 I'm sure you've been asked this tons of 2140 01:30:51,740 --> 01:30:47,219 times but do you have an opinion on 2141 01:30:53,570 --> 01:30:51,750 people like Rick Doty or Bob Lazar do 2142 01:30:57,080 --> 01:30:53,580 you think some of the stuff they're 2143 01:30:58,550 --> 01:30:57,090 saying is true most of it is true well 2144 01:31:00,830 --> 01:30:58,560 hardly any of it is true do you have any 2145 01:31:03,950 --> 01:31:00,840 oh you know what I just don't like to 2146 01:31:05,460 --> 01:31:03,960 comment on on people other people I mean 2147 01:31:07,590 --> 01:31:05,470 I I just 2148 01:31:09,620 --> 01:31:07,600 would prefer not to comment I don't feel 2149 01:31:13,170 --> 01:31:09,630 in a position to really make it a 2150 01:31:16,710 --> 01:31:13,180 comment you know a really valid comment 2151 01:31:17,970 --> 01:31:16,720 about these gentlemen either and I you 2152 01:31:20,160 --> 01:31:17,980 know I find Bob lazarre's work 2153 01:31:22,650 --> 01:31:20,170 fascinating and I've great respect for 2154 01:31:25,470 --> 01:31:22,660 George Knapp but I'm not an expert on on 2155 01:31:28,020 --> 01:31:25,480 him at all so I think I said I think I 2156 01:31:29,550 --> 01:31:28,030 just would prefer not to comment sure I 2157 01:31:32,100 --> 01:31:29,560 understand that and I hope you're safe 2158 01:31:33,990 --> 01:31:32,110 back in New York and once again thanks 2159 01:31:35,700 --> 01:31:34,000 so much for the for the information 2160 01:31:37,200 --> 01:31:35,710 Thank You Martin all right John hey 2161 01:31:40,020 --> 01:31:37,210 thanks for the good question I really 2162 01:31:43,200 --> 01:31:40,030 appreciate it it was good thank you baby 2163 01:31:46,770 --> 01:31:43,210 take care okay all right so moving on we 2164 01:31:50,460 --> 01:31:46,780 have Mike and Mike is calling from 2165 01:31:52,200 --> 01:31:50,470 Montana welcome to the show Mike hey 2166 01:31:53,880 --> 01:31:52,210 thanks Martin how you doing good 2167 01:31:58,650 --> 01:31:53,890 how are you you have a question for our 2168 01:32:02,220 --> 01:31:58,660 guest but more of a comment I guess but 2169 01:32:05,330 --> 01:32:02,230 I just as with many of the other callers 2170 01:32:06,930 --> 01:32:05,340 I just wanted to say thanks for 2171 01:32:14,820 --> 01:32:06,940 everything you've done 2172 01:32:17,700 --> 01:32:14,830 I been working on a book 2012 and it it 2173 01:32:21,260 --> 01:32:17,710 sort of looked at it in the context of 2174 01:32:23,820 --> 01:32:21,270 time travel and human evolution and 2175 01:32:26,190 --> 01:32:23,830 before that article came out I've kind 2176 01:32:28,410 --> 01:32:26,200 of crap in my pants about what the 2177 01:32:31,790 --> 01:32:28,420 reaction was going to be I'm a professor 2178 01:32:34,350 --> 01:32:31,800 up in in Montana and I've got tenure and 2179 01:32:36,390 --> 01:32:34,360 I'm a full professor now so it's not 2180 01:32:39,060 --> 01:32:36,400 like I had to worry about getting fired 2181 01:32:41,220 --> 01:32:39,070 but I was extremely concerned about what 2182 01:32:45,720 --> 01:32:41,230 the reaction would be in that article in 2183 01:32:48,180 --> 01:32:45,730 2017 definitely opened up a lot of 2184 01:32:51,360 --> 01:32:48,190 opportunities for researchers and 2185 01:32:53,040 --> 01:32:51,370 academics to be able to look at things 2186 01:32:55,650 --> 01:32:53,050 in real terms and the talk about them 2187 01:32:57,090 --> 01:32:55,660 more openly so that's great well yeah 2188 01:32:58,650 --> 01:32:57,100 and speaking of academics I don't know 2189 01:33:01,200 --> 01:32:58,660 if you're familiar with the work of dr. 2190 01:33:03,000 --> 01:33:01,210 jeff kraebel from Rice University who's 2191 01:33:05,190 --> 01:33:03,010 an academic who's very involved with 2192 01:33:06,810 --> 01:33:05,200 this and another one is is a Diana 2193 01:33:09,270 --> 01:33:06,820 pasola who wrote the book American 2194 01:33:10,650 --> 01:33:09,280 cosmic I don't know what department 2195 01:33:12,240 --> 01:33:10,660 you're in Mike or what your area of 2196 01:33:14,370 --> 01:33:12,250 specialty is but they they're both 2197 01:33:16,550 --> 01:33:14,380 people that are there in the religious 2198 01:33:19,050 --> 01:33:16,560 religion departments of theirs their 2199 01:33:22,440 --> 01:33:19,060 universities but they're very 2200 01:33:23,910 --> 01:33:22,450 they're absolute academics you know 2201 01:33:25,500 --> 01:33:23,920 highly credentialed but they're very 2202 01:33:27,180 --> 01:33:25,510 interested in this topic and they are 2203 01:33:29,400 --> 01:33:27,190 also working on trying to get the 2204 01:33:31,530 --> 01:33:29,410 academic community to open up to it more 2205 01:33:32,970 --> 01:33:31,540 so you might enjoy looking them up and 2206 01:33:36,510 --> 01:33:32,980 looking at some of their work if you 2207 01:33:38,730 --> 01:33:36,520 haven't already absolutely yeah no I'm a 2208 01:33:40,650 --> 01:33:38,740 I'm a biological anthropologist and look 2209 01:33:44,190 --> 01:33:40,660 at it in the context of long-term 2210 01:33:45,600 --> 01:33:44,200 evolutionary changes and yeah actually 2211 01:33:47,940 --> 01:33:45,610 been on the show before Martin and I 2212 01:33:50,430 --> 01:33:47,950 spoke about this and won't won't take up 2213 01:33:55,050 --> 01:33:50,440 your time and there you go fascinating 2214 01:33:56,820 --> 01:33:55,060 that's all I can say yeah 2215 01:33:59,670 --> 01:33:56,830 plan on it thanks good all right Mike 2216 01:34:03,450 --> 01:33:59,680 thanks thanks for the call all right 2217 01:34:06,050 --> 01:34:03,460 next we have Bruce Bruce is calling from 2218 01:34:12,290 --> 01:34:06,060 a New Jersey welcome to the show Bruce 2219 01:34:21,390 --> 01:34:16,440 how you doing I'm doing okay Bruce how 2220 01:34:24,450 --> 01:34:21,400 are you I'm okay considering yeah a 2221 01:34:26,790 --> 01:34:24,460 couple things III have a connection to 2222 01:34:29,340 --> 01:34:26,800 both of you all family 2223 01:34:33,090 --> 01:34:29,350 Martin you played my music on your show 2224 01:34:36,720 --> 01:34:33,100 a number of times in the past I want to 2225 01:34:38,610 --> 01:34:36,730 thank you for that I don't know if you 2226 01:34:42,180 --> 01:34:38,620 remember that it was maybe three or four 2227 01:34:44,490 --> 01:34:42,190 years ago do yes yes I do yes I have 2228 01:34:46,710 --> 01:34:44,500 that somewhere I do believe I know I had 2229 01:34:49,230 --> 01:34:46,720 a computer I had that stuff on fried but 2230 01:34:51,300 --> 01:34:49,240 I do believe I still just tell me the 2231 01:34:56,250 --> 01:34:51,310 title of do you know that remember the 2232 01:34:59,940 --> 01:34:56,260 title yes I guess I do have that I have 2233 01:35:02,430 --> 01:34:59,950 that yes right yeah okay well thank you 2234 01:35:06,960 --> 01:35:02,440 for playing my musical in your show and 2235 01:35:14,670 --> 01:35:06,970 like and then Leslie I actually went to 2236 01:35:15,540 --> 01:35:14,680 college with your brother yeah Gary oh 2237 01:35:21,510 --> 01:35:15,550 really 2238 01:35:25,110 --> 01:35:21,520 a trip on or where uh Oh Andy uh okay 2239 01:35:27,510 --> 01:35:25,120 that's incredible I can't believe it and 2240 01:35:30,810 --> 01:35:27,520 he and I used to sit around a lot you 2241 01:35:32,790 --> 01:35:30,820 talk about UFOs and other philosophical 2242 01:35:35,550 --> 01:35:32,800 things and 2243 01:35:38,070 --> 01:35:35,560 I I lived at his house he lived in a 2244 01:35:41,010 --> 01:35:38,080 house outside of town live dinners out a 2245 01:35:43,140 --> 01:35:41,020 little while and we just talked about it 2246 01:35:45,479 --> 01:35:43,150 a lot and one time I think you called 2247 01:35:49,800 --> 01:35:45,489 and he was talking to you while I was 2248 01:35:51,870 --> 01:35:49,810 there and afterwards I said what what 2249 01:35:54,979 --> 01:35:51,880 your sister do and I think was when you 2250 01:35:58,830 --> 01:35:54,989 were working at Democracy Now was it oh 2251 01:36:02,040 --> 01:35:58,840 yeah KPFA radio in Berkeley California I 2252 01:36:03,959 --> 01:36:02,050 think it's what it was yeah yeah similar 2253 01:36:08,400 --> 01:36:03,969 to democracy now a show very similar to 2254 01:36:11,070 --> 01:36:08,410 that right it was uh unfortunately we 2255 01:36:13,080 --> 01:36:11,080 weren't able to get it at Ana but there 2256 01:36:19,670 --> 01:36:13,090 were a lot of things happening in Yellow 2257 01:36:26,130 --> 01:36:23,580 wright-patterson Air Force Base Jets 2258 01:36:29,220 --> 01:36:26,140 used to fly over Yellow Springs all the 2259 01:36:30,810 --> 01:36:29,230 time and they fly really low and all the 2260 01:36:33,240 --> 01:36:30,820 students would say oh that they're 2261 01:36:36,840 --> 01:36:33,250 spying on us all this stuff which I 2262 01:36:38,490 --> 01:36:36,850 don't know if that was true but years 2263 01:36:43,560 --> 01:36:38,500 later I was looking at the radio station 2264 01:36:47,459 --> 01:36:43,570 and fellow DJ there lived in a house in 2265 01:36:49,580 --> 01:36:47,469 town where the guy long house was a 2266 01:36:52,080 --> 01:36:49,590 scientist who worked at wright-patterson 2267 01:36:54,300 --> 01:36:52,090 and I used to ask him all the time 2268 01:36:57,660 --> 01:36:54,310 what's he do you know there was all 2269 01:36:59,760 --> 01:36:57,670 these rumors about hangar 18 and you 2270 01:37:02,190 --> 01:36:59,770 know I I don't know I'm an open-minded 2271 01:37:04,590 --> 01:37:02,200 skeptic I don't believe a lot of the 2272 01:37:07,830 --> 01:37:04,600 stories but I thought that was kind of 2273 01:37:11,580 --> 01:37:07,840 interesting he's a scientist and one day 2274 01:37:15,209 --> 01:37:11,590 I was out on the lawn and I heard this 2275 01:37:21,180 --> 01:37:15,219 noise and in the sky it was a sound like 2276 01:37:22,680 --> 01:37:21,190 a prop airplane turning off its motor so 2277 01:37:27,479 --> 01:37:22,690 I looked up and I saw this 2278 01:37:32,190 --> 01:37:27,489 strange-looking craft it had this 2279 01:37:35,479 --> 01:37:32,200 predates I guess the stealth bomber but 2280 01:37:38,280 --> 01:37:35,489 it kind of looked like that it was I 2281 01:37:42,150 --> 01:37:38,290 years later I saw pictures of the Horten 2282 01:37:43,950 --> 01:37:42,160 brother aircraft that the they were 2283 01:37:46,259 --> 01:37:43,960 working on during world war ii and it 2284 01:37:48,239 --> 01:37:46,269 looked very similar that 2285 01:37:51,209 --> 01:37:48,249 and I thought well you know maybe they 2286 01:37:54,750 --> 01:37:51,219 are doing you know all this back 2287 01:37:58,520 --> 01:37:54,760 engineering and stuff but I always 2288 01:38:02,939 --> 01:37:58,530 wondered why none of the UFO 2289 01:38:06,089 --> 01:38:02,949 investigators didn't go to Yellow 2290 01:38:09,000 --> 01:38:06,099 Springs I mean this guy who was a 2291 01:38:11,520 --> 01:38:09,010 scientist there everybody knew he worked 2292 01:38:15,979 --> 01:38:11,530 at by Patterson and to me it would have 2293 01:38:19,950 --> 01:38:15,989 been a logical way to get try to get a 2294 01:38:22,890 --> 01:38:19,960 new story because Yellow Springs I think 2295 01:38:24,000 --> 01:38:22,900 there were several other scientists who 2296 01:38:27,739 --> 01:38:24,010 lived in the area 2297 01:38:30,330 --> 01:38:27,749 it was always being inundated with 2298 01:38:33,779 --> 01:38:30,340 wright-patterson aircraft flying over 2299 01:38:36,200 --> 01:38:33,789 and really low so I'm assuming that 2300 01:38:39,120 --> 01:38:36,210 these scientists would tell these people 2301 01:38:45,270 --> 01:38:39,130 fly over Yellow Springs I'll go outside 2302 01:38:47,879 --> 01:38:45,280 and and examine what you're doing I have 2303 01:38:50,160 --> 01:38:47,889 no idea I just couldn't I couldn't even 2304 01:38:51,569 --> 01:38:50,170 comment I have no idea what the deal was 2305 01:38:54,359 --> 01:38:51,579 there or why there weren't people out 2306 01:38:55,589 --> 01:38:54,369 there maybe there were Hey Bruce we're 2307 01:38:56,939 --> 01:38:55,599 running out of time I'm gonna have to 2308 01:39:01,229 --> 01:38:56,949 catch these other callers but good to 2309 01:39:03,689 --> 01:39:01,239 hear from you yeah I don't always listen 2310 01:39:07,319 --> 01:39:03,699 to the live show but I listen later on 2311 01:39:08,609 --> 01:39:07,329 yeah absolute go to sleep are you not 2312 01:39:12,839 --> 01:39:08,619 the only one that tells me that alright 2313 01:39:15,390 --> 01:39:12,849 okay Bruce Thanks yeah yeah bye alright 2314 01:39:17,790 --> 01:39:15,400 next we have Stephen we just have 2315 01:39:22,770 --> 01:39:17,800 Stephen from Washington is that 2316 01:39:24,359 --> 01:39:22,780 Washington State Stephen yeah we only 2317 01:39:25,709 --> 01:39:24,369 have a couple of minutes I'm trying to 2318 01:39:34,229 --> 01:39:25,719 get and we have one more caller after 2319 01:39:36,439 --> 01:39:34,239 you I so perfect yeah don't numerous 2320 01:39:40,790 --> 01:39:36,449 Pentagon spokesman have come out 2321 01:39:43,770 --> 01:39:40,800 spokespeople come out and said that 2322 01:39:46,669 --> 01:39:43,780 Louise Elizondo never had any official 2323 01:39:49,739 --> 01:39:46,679 duties with a tip at all 2324 01:39:52,770 --> 01:39:49,749 Christopher Sherwood and Susan Goff have 2325 01:39:55,950 --> 01:39:52,780 both said that from the Pentagon and I'm 2326 01:39:58,600 --> 01:39:55,960 just how confident are you that Louise 2327 01:40:01,479 --> 01:39:58,610 Elizondo really headed that 2328 01:40:04,300 --> 01:40:01,489 program like he claims and that my 2329 01:40:06,669 --> 01:40:04,310 question I'll jump offline yeah I mean 2330 01:40:09,520 --> 01:40:06,679 I'm I'm you know the word head I mean I 2331 01:40:10,899 --> 01:40:09,530 think part of the issue you know I mean 2332 01:40:12,820 --> 01:40:10,909 we stand by everything you wrote in The 2333 01:40:15,160 --> 01:40:12,830 Times and the Lew was a sort of purse 2334 01:40:17,350 --> 01:40:15,170 the focal point the folk purse focal 2335 01:40:19,899 --> 01:40:17,360 person for that entity called a tip but 2336 01:40:22,979 --> 01:40:19,909 I think part of the problem is that a 2337 01:40:25,359 --> 01:40:22,989 tip didn't really have a formal 2338 01:40:28,300 --> 01:40:25,369 existence I mean it didn't have its own 2339 01:40:30,160 --> 01:40:28,310 office it's you know they just called 2340 01:40:34,000 --> 01:40:30,170 themselves that it was a kind of a loose 2341 01:40:37,209 --> 01:40:34,010 affiliation almost and so it's not 2342 01:40:38,830 --> 01:40:37,219 something that a PR person speaking out 2343 01:40:41,590 --> 01:40:38,840 in behalf of the Defense Department 2344 01:40:43,090 --> 01:40:41,600 would necessarily know much about I just 2345 01:40:44,859 --> 01:40:43,100 think there's a tremendous there's been 2346 01:40:46,270 --> 01:40:44,869 a lot of confusion among various 2347 01:40:47,919 --> 01:40:46,280 spokespeople who have tried to answer 2348 01:40:50,169 --> 01:40:47,929 these questions and I think it's been 2349 01:40:54,040 --> 01:40:50,179 hard for them to get answers to the 2350 01:40:56,109 --> 01:40:54,050 questions but I have no doubt that about 2351 01:40:58,510 --> 01:40:56,119 Lou's role in that program as we 2352 01:41:01,209 --> 01:40:58,520 reported it in The Times I just think 2353 01:41:04,959 --> 01:41:01,219 the nature of the program was kind of 2354 01:41:07,209 --> 01:41:04,969 unusual and hard to pin down and so 2355 01:41:08,680 --> 01:41:07,219 that's and I just think there's been 2356 01:41:10,870 --> 01:41:08,690 confusion from people who have been 2357 01:41:13,030 --> 01:41:10,880 speaking out about it unfortunately 2358 01:41:15,310 --> 01:41:13,040 there's been a lot of conflicts and 2359 01:41:17,379 --> 01:41:15,320 contradictions for instance they they've 2360 01:41:21,450 --> 01:41:17,389 told us as well that the program ended 2361 01:41:24,340 --> 01:41:21,460 in 2012 which I know is not true and we 2362 01:41:26,500 --> 01:41:24,350 you know we reported that it's just not 2363 01:41:29,439 --> 01:41:26,510 true but I think that spokesperson 2364 01:41:31,629 --> 01:41:29,449 really believed that because that's when 2365 01:41:33,970 --> 01:41:31,639 the funding stopped for the program the 2366 01:41:36,490 --> 01:41:33,980 formal funding stopped in 2012 the 2367 01:41:38,290 --> 01:41:36,500 people involved kept going but that's 2368 01:41:40,330 --> 01:41:38,300 the person from the Defense Department 2369 01:41:42,280 --> 01:41:40,340 who was who was tasked with trying to 2370 01:41:44,140 --> 01:41:42,290 answer this question came up with the 2371 01:41:46,090 --> 01:41:44,150 answer of 2012 because that's when the 2372 01:41:47,320 --> 01:41:46,100 funding started and who knows where that 2373 01:41:49,840 --> 01:41:47,330 person had to go to get that information 2374 01:41:51,700 --> 01:41:49,850 to answer that question so I just don't 2375 01:41:54,189 --> 01:41:51,710 think it's a simple process for anybody 2376 01:41:56,379 --> 01:41:54,199 who is trying to answer questions about 2377 01:41:58,359 --> 01:41:56,389 the a tip program that's sort of my my 2378 01:41:59,979 --> 01:41:58,369 sense of it that's it that's a really 2379 01:42:01,899 --> 01:41:59,989 good answer and you know those things 2380 01:42:04,330 --> 01:42:01,909 have crossed my mind and you know 2381 01:42:06,040 --> 01:42:04,340 Alejandro and I had a conversation about 2382 01:42:07,149 --> 01:42:06,050 any kind of more or less said the same 2383 01:42:09,280 --> 01:42:07,159 thing 2384 01:42:11,589 --> 01:42:09,290 you know similar to what you just said 2385 01:42:12,370 --> 01:42:11,599 there we have one more call and it's 2386 01:42:15,070 --> 01:42:12,380 going to have to be 2387 01:42:16,720 --> 01:42:15,080 quick 1 Gary from Oregon Masari I know 2388 01:42:17,770 --> 01:42:16,730 you've been waiting a long time but 2389 01:42:22,360 --> 01:42:17,780 we're gonna have to make this a quick 2390 01:42:26,890 --> 01:42:22,370 one Gary okay well first off thank you 2391 01:42:29,890 --> 01:42:26,900 for all your work your sound voice in 2392 01:42:31,000 --> 01:42:29,900 this in this culture I'm saying that I 2393 01:42:35,680 --> 01:42:31,010 appreciate that 2394 01:42:38,350 --> 01:42:35,690 and um well basically I guess when's the 2395 01:42:43,930 --> 01:42:38,360 follow-up when when's the next one when 2396 01:42:46,840 --> 01:42:43,940 premiered New York Times article yeah I 2397 01:42:49,570 --> 01:42:46,850 as soon as we can get our hands on the 2398 01:42:51,970 --> 01:42:49,580 information we need to put a story into 2399 01:42:53,650 --> 01:42:51,980 the times it will happen but you know 2400 01:42:55,930 --> 01:42:53,660 there's just there's just not a lot of 2401 01:42:57,940 --> 01:42:55,940 opportunities for the kind of 2402 01:43:00,010 --> 01:42:57,950 information we need we just don't get it 2403 01:43:03,730 --> 01:43:00,020 we don't have it we're digging around 2404 01:43:06,070 --> 01:43:03,740 all the time so we just have to be 2405 01:43:07,690 --> 01:43:06,080 patient and as soon as something reveals 2406 01:43:09,970 --> 01:43:07,700 itself where somebody comes to us with a 2407 01:43:12,040 --> 01:43:09,980 story or some you know something else 2408 01:43:14,350 --> 01:43:12,050 explosive comes up comes up we will 2409 01:43:15,880 --> 01:43:14,360 report on it but we're not like just 2410 01:43:17,650 --> 01:43:15,890 sort of the Internet where we can just 2411 01:43:19,030 --> 01:43:17,660 sort of write about anything we want you 2412 01:43:21,790 --> 01:43:19,040 know it has to be as I was saying 2413 01:43:24,790 --> 01:43:21,800 earlier something exclusive to The Times 2414 01:43:27,130 --> 01:43:24,800 something new something really 2415 01:43:28,810 --> 01:43:27,140 groundbreaking something connected to 2416 01:43:31,630 --> 01:43:28,820 the government it's all these criteria 2417 01:43:33,130 --> 01:43:31,640 that have to be filled but we're on it 2418 01:43:37,090 --> 01:43:33,140 and we're always looking to do it again 2419 01:43:38,500 --> 01:43:37,100 so I hope we can okay Leslie we have to 2420 01:43:41,760 --> 01:43:38,510 end the show real quickly I'm sorry 2421 01:43:45,190 --> 01:43:41,770 there's another guest coming up that's 2422 01:43:47,290 --> 01:43:45,200 Martin you been really fun Oh as always 2423 01:43:49,840 --> 01:43:47,300 it always is thank you so much Leslie 2424 01:43:51,940 --> 01:43:49,850 and you take care take care bye bye 2425 01:43:53,020 --> 01:43:51,950 all right everyone so that's it for the 2426 01:43:54,880 --> 01:43:53,030 show this evening 2427 01:43:57,070 --> 01:43:54,890 next speak of speaking of 2428 01:43:59,530 --> 01:43:57,080 wright-patterson next week we have array 2429 01:44:00,310 --> 01:43:59,540 it says Manske on and he's going to be 2430 01:44:02,370 --> 01:44:00,320 talking about 2431 01:44:04,750 --> 01:44:02,380 he's a former insider at 2432 01:44:07,840 --> 01:44:04,760 wright-patterson has some information 2433 01:44:09,970 --> 01:44:07,850 he's got a book called 50 great fifty 2434 01:44:11,350 --> 01:44:09,980 shades of gray anyway thanks so much for 2435 01:44:14,030 --> 01:44:11,360 listening everyone stay well and 2436 01:44:20,200 --> 01:44:14,040 remember to keep your eyes to the sky